Talk:Waterworld

"Notes"

SciFI showed the ABC version on June 21, 2007

The tangential similarities between Waterworld and Snow crash — "The good guy saves a girl from a big boat while being shot at" — hardly warrant an encyclopedia mention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.199.71.202 (talk) 17:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Strongly agreed. There is no relevance to this association and the stories have far more differences than similarities. Furthermore there is one inaccuracy (The girl Hiro needs to safe on The Raft is his ex-girlfriend, not Y.T.) The note should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.37.180.226 (talk) 21:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Should add that even if the polar ice caps melted completely, sea level would rise only 220 feet while in the movie it depicts over 28,000 feet. Granted 220 feet would be bad, but wouldnt even come close to covering all the dry land. If sea level were really 28,000 feet higher than today, when the Mariner and the woman dove to Denver 23,000 feet below sea level, they both would have been crushed to death by the pressure long before they ever got there.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question473.htm

"If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet). But the average temperature in Antarctica is -37°C, so the ice there is in no danger of melting. In fact in most parts of the continent it never gets above freezing.

At the other end of the world, the North Pole, the ice is not nearly as thick as at the South Pole. The ice floats on the Arctic Ocean. If it melted sea levels would not be affected.

There is a significant amount of ice covering Greenland, which would add another 7 meters (20 feet) to the oceans if it melted. Because Greenland is closer to the equator than Antarctica, the temperatures there are higher, so the ice is more likely to melt. "

This movie is King of the Global Warming hysteria films. "The Day After Tomorrow" would be a distant second with its -125F temperatures quick freezing helicopters in flight among dozens of other ridiculous scenes. The whole movie was ridiculous in the extreme, but it was still an entertaining movie. They should have set the movie on another planet to make it at least seem plausible. 20:16, 24 March 2007 Anonymous

Map Logic

"The concept of a map showing the location of dry land is nonsensical given the literal lack of landmarks (unless it were a star / sun map)."

Still don't see how a star/sun map would work when it's impossible to determine your longitude. Lee M 01:54, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

Good point, although knowing the latitude of the site would take a lot of the guesswork out of it, it would then be a 'simple' matter of cicumnavigating the globe at that latitude! I agree though - the whole film is a pile of pants. Mark Richards 15:38, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

Actually the "pile of pants" here is just the notion that melting the ice caps would cover almost all of the land with water. Do a little arithmetic. The icecaps cover less than 10% of the surface. If they rise and average of 1000 feet above sea level then melting them should represent less than 100 feet of sea level increase. How much land is more than 100 feet above sea level? How much of the ice caps are 1000 feet above sea level? (I realize this is a simplistic line of reasoning, but keep in mind that ice is less compact than water due to differences in atomic densities in a cubic/crystal lattice vs. the amorphous liquid form. So I'm being conservative in claiming that every ten inches of ice above sea level might result in one inch of sea level rise; it's easy to see that even if the ice caps where a mile high all the way across we'd only get 500 feet of sea rise --- significant but not the end of land on earth unless this was somehow accompanied by massive global erosion to wash the land into the oceans. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JimD (talk • contribs) 19:20, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

Erm. Yes. I don't think the movie bears too much analysis on any front. Isn't there a page somewhere that tracks movies by how true they are to real physics? Mark Richards 19:53, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't say the movie is complete pants...if you don't try to analyse it too closely it's quite entertaining. Maybe one pant? Lee M 01:39, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

No, sorry - I'm pretty sure it is complete pants ;) Mark Richards 02:43, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Regarding the 'erosion' line of logic: I once read a really badly written science fiction book called Omega: The Last Days of the World, in which it was speculated that the world would wind up completely flat eventually, thanks to erosion. This was, of course, before they discovered continental drift, but maybe if the water level was higher it might well happen. Of course, it would take millions of years, and since the movie features on oil tanker, I don't think millions of years have passed. Unless they found a really good rustproofing process before the world ended. -Litefantastic 18:04, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Good Gods! I hadn't planned to see this thing, and after reading this article I'm really glad I didn't. The plot implausibilities impossibilities would have driven me bats. I don't mind suspending my disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it by the neck until dead.
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 16:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Where is your imagination? It is said that the temperature change is due to a shift in the earth's axial tilt. How can this happen? Most likely by a collision with a celestial body. There are celestial bodies like comets and ice asteroids, that consist at least partially of water. So imagine an meteor shower of these hailing on earth. Wouldn't that result in too much water? Maybe it also would trim Mount Everest, or bomb it into the ground. So Mt. Everest at the time of Waterworld is just 400 feet high?--TeakHoken91.7.26.16 16:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Take a block of ice, drop it in a tub, then let the ice melt, it wouldn't effect the level of water. That's the ice over water, what about the ice over land? That ice on land presses on the continental plates which deforms, it's basically the same effect which is zero effect. It would be like placing a block of ice on a paper boat, if you melt the ice, again the water level in the bathtub doesn't change. I like the movie, thought it was great; pretend a big ice asteroid 500 miles across grazed earth's atmosphere and it rained for year.98.165.15.98 (talk) 23:28, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

"effect"?! Also, have you ever heard of Archimedes and his principle? Modreamarin (talk) 09:12, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Reformat?

The sidebar entry "Starring" lists 15 people; surely they aren't all "stars" of the movie. Far down on the page, the "Cast" is only 7 people. I think that's clearly backwards, and the "Cast" list should be moved up to "Starring" while the current "Starring" list moved down under "Cast" (and expanded, as it is surely incomplete; there were way more than 15 people with speaking roles in the movie). Aumakua 09:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

B-29 reference

In the article trivia:

"The character Enola is named after the Enola Gay, the American B-29 Superfortress bomber airplane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima in August 1945."

I watched the movie, but I missed the connection. Can anyone explain this for me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JeffersonRyan (talk • contribs) 23:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand that either, as the Enola Gay was named for the pilot's mother. Seems more like opinion than fact. --198.53.165.84 04:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

On top of it, I think that the note "Enola is the English word "Alone" written backwards." added for me and deleted by someone at May, 09, makes a lot more sense to the plot (in my opinion) than the superfortress reference. May anyone verify this? JeffersonRyan

I agree. Enola = alone backwards, it's a hint that she's an orphan. Valerius Myotis 02:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Confusing / did not turn a profit at the Box office

As it stands, the top paragraph gives conflicting data on the box office take. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rothul (talk • contribs) 00:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It sure does:
With a budget of $175 million, the film only grossed a meager $88 million ... In 2005 dollars, (USD), the budget for the movie was $229 million, and grossed $115.3 million at the U.S. box office and $229.9 million at the foreign box office, making a profit of more than $115 million.[1] PrometheusX303 12:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The film cost 175 million; its worldwide boxoffice was 264 million. So it made 89 million at the box office right? Wrong. The 264 million is total boxoffice receipts. The box office takes a sizable chunk of that plus tens of millions of dollars were spent advertizing the film. So even if the box office only took 30% (they probably took more) and a measily 20 million was spent on advertiznig (a very low figure for worldwide promotion) the film would have lost 10 million dollars. If the movie ever turned a profit it was after VHS, DVD, cable, and TV. But even that it even turned a profit should not be claimed without a source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.93.113.49 (talk) 15:25, 9 June 2005 (UTC)

Source cited and posted [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.167.255.200 (talk) 20:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The source just gives the cost and gross box office. See the very simple math lesson above for an explination why that does not mean the film turned a profit at the box office. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.44.209.205 (talk) 14:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed specific profit figures (along with the confusing template) and added a new source which explains it officially reached profit starting in 2002. --4.231.247.227 20:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Oops, source removed; it was a mock news site. However, my removal of specific profit figures is still warranted.--4.231.247.227 21:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know which is correct, but the top section notes a gross US Box Office of $88 million, as well as $115 million. In the notes section, the $88 million is re-iterated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.151.177.34 (talk) 17:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me for beeing stupid, but does this make sense to have a detailled description about the profit/non profit of a movie in the opening paragraph ? This does not seem very encyclopedic to me.81.255.228.17 13:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"Patently False" messagebox

I'm not sure why this box was added to the "Notes" section, as there is no mention of it on this talk page, but after a review of this section, nearly all the information seems quite accurate to me. The only item which I think requires citation is the claim that Enola's name comes from the Enola Gay, so I'm removing it until someone can give some evidence. Also, I suppose the claim that the amount of ammunition used by the Quadmount gun is unrealistic should have some source cited as well, but I won't remove it for now.

Aside from these two issues, this section does not seem to have any signifigant factuality problems (although I would question the premise of a "Notes" section - surely much of htis information would be better suited in a section entitled "Inconsistencies", though I'm not sure where the rest of the information should go) so I'm removing this Messagebox unless someone can give some justification for it. --Walkersam 20:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning added

Added spolier warning after considering spolier guidelines on article detailing the same —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.80.180.218 (talk) 23:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Synopsis rewrite of 04:56, December 15, 2006 by DiogenesNY

Hi, DiogenesNY. An excellent rewrite of my rewrite of the synopsis. I, myself, see no real problem with re-including the line (referring to the Mariner's mutation) "perhaps an example of the next stage of human evolution due to the new, environmental conditions which now prevail" some day.

When Gregor is talking to the Mariner about his gills whilst he's imprisoned in the cage at the atoll, he says to the Mariner that there will probably be "more of his kind" in the future. This suggests that some people in Waterworld (except, of course, the Deacon!) are aware of the possible processes of evolution on Homo Sapiens in generations to come. In other words, the Mariner isn't a "one-off" freak of nature; not simply a "mutant", but a bona-fide adaptation to a world without landmasses. Cheers!.

Gardener of Geda 11:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, it's Homo sapiens, not "Homo Sapiens". Secondly, this isn't how evolution works, even remotely. Organisms don't somehow analyze their surroundings and shapeshift accordingly. It's whichever members of a gene pool are more likely to produce larger numbers of surviving, fertile offspring who in turn do the same that determines the course of evolution. This is why with all thr adaptations that whales have to life in the ocean, not a single marine mammal has ever evolved gills. --Þórrstejn [ˡθoɝ.staɪʲn]: Hammer of Thor ^talk 21:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Who's business is it if the synopsis is too long in comparison to the other parts? It seems that Wikipedia is deploying a whole legion of nazis--synopsis nazis, trivia nazis, etc.--that serve to put a chill in the basic point to the Wikipedia.Godofredo29 (talk) 21:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Note regarding Denver

The first note states that: "The underwater city the Mariner shows Helen is actually Denver, Colorado (which, at an elevation of one mile, would not be jeopardized by melted polar ice caps as noted above)."

I don't see any reference to this above. 82.41.202.199 12:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

How do we know the underwater city is Denver? (AndrewAnorak 18:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC))

During the "underwater city" scene you can see the ruins of a structure that to some people looks very reminiscient of the "Cash Register Building" (Wells Fargo Center) in Denver (and I would agree there, the arced top seems pretty telling). Furthermore, the same scene ends with the two protagonists ascending from their dive along a row of ski lift ruins leading up a hill (underwater), which should be another giveaway as to the general area. 91.33.246.142 (talk) 00:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The true Waterworld IMAGE

got this picture from a webiste.this is an authentic image of what would happen if all ice melted. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/waterworld.html http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/spaceart/earthicefree.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Manchurian candidate (talk • contribs) 07:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Not sure these maps are legit, from the following statement in that website: "it has NOT been proven that human-caused global warming is occurring, and in fact there is substantial reason to reject such claims. The best explanation for the evidence is that whatever global warming trend exists is mostly the result of natural influences like variations in the climate system and variations in solar radiation." Badagnani 00:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Besides that comment, I would have to say that the map is rather accurate. Anyway, according Al Gore His Holiness the first Pope of Globalwarminology in his film an inconvenient truth sea levels will only rise about a hundered feet if all the ice melts.

• That ain't gonna cover the world with water.
• All the ice has melted before.
• You would need an ice moon of saturn to cover the world with water.
• I hope you dont live near sea level. T.Neo (talk) 09:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Checking for accuracy on likelihood of evolving gills

The article states:

The Mariner's "mutations", specifically his fish-like gills that allow him to apparently "breathe" ocean water, are extremely unlikely. Even mammals that live underwater, like whales and dolphins, did not evolve gills. It is not possible for a warm-blooded creature to supply itself with enough oxygen using only small gills [3]. Beyond that, the plausibility of developing an entirely new respiratory system without any larger gene pool having the same trait is also questionable.

This seems mostly reasonable, though I'm having trouble with the "developing an entirely new respiratory system" part. It's mine understanding that the gill structures of fish and ear structures of mammals are merely different specializations of the same early embryonic structure. The human ears have eustachian tubes which are apparently vestiges of our gilled ancestors; these tubes do not reach all the way to the lungs, but do not serve any apparent function, indicating that the basic gill structure possessed by fish is still present, in a reduced form, in humans. Theoretically, if a mutation caused the eustachian tubes to reach the lungs, and another mutation strengthened the muscle of the lungs to handle liquid and thus be able to extract oxygen from the water, wouldn't a person be able to breathe through its ears? Okay, so there would probably be some other hurdles to overcome in trying to re-active the underwater breathing equipment still found in mammals, but I don't see how an "entirely new respiratory system" would be necessary, when a slightly modified version of our current respiratory system would do the trick. --Þorstejnn 06:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually....it isn't as impossible as you think. Technically we all breathe water for 9 months in the womb. And there were experiments in the 1920's involving people being able to breathe underwater if the saleen (I believe) was at a super high level. However, survival rate of it was only 30%. Apparently getting out of the water was killer. It was on the discovery channel. (VRaptorX Tuesday June 26th, 2007)

Technically we don't breathe water for 9 months. A developing baby receives oxygen (and nutrients) from its mother's blood supply (which it's plugged into via the placenta). It does not use the amniotic fluid. --Plumbago 19:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but doesn't a baby still use their diaphragm muscles to move amniotic fluid in and out of the lungs? Or am I thinking of an old wife's tale? I know they are not getting oxygen that way, but they are exercising developing lungs. --EarthPerson 20:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you're probably correct on this point, but it's very far from having gills. IIRC, in the film, the Mariner appears to have gills behind his ears, and isn't using his lungs to breathe underwater. Cheers, --Plumbago 20:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that is where his gills are in the film. I think it would make more sense if he was like other sea-going mammal, like a dolphin, but not with a blow-hole, just with an ability to hold his breath longer. The time it would take to evolve gills would be far longer than is shown in the film. (I completely missed the notion that he wasn't using his diaphragm and lungs to filter air from the water. Having gills behind the ears would allow him to (I suppose) gulp water in his mouth and expel it out the back of the head through the gills. But I think they'd be way too small for him to give an adequate supply of oxygen.) --EarthPerson 21:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section: dilution of the sea

I've marked this as dubious. 97% of the water on the surface of the Earth is seawater, only 3% is freshwater (ice, rivers, ground water, etc.).[2] Since seawater is about 10 times too saline to drink safely, there's no way putting that freshwater into the sea would dilute it enough. I have no idea how much water vapour is in the atmosphere. If there's enough to dilute the sea ten-fold, that would be impressive, but I'd personally need to see some academic reference to support that. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 21:12, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

No, he's saying that if there were enough water to cover the earth (from any source, even, I suppose, extraterestrial), it would make the sea drinkable. Hes not saying that that much water is actually present on earth... User:gdavis 20:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Waterworld.jpg

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BetacommandBot 04:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Implausibilities section

I've moved the Implausibilities section here because it looks like all original research. I don't really see the purpose of pointing out implausibilities in a work of fiction. I've moved it to this talk page until reliable sources can be found for these statements. --Pixelface 08:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see something similar to this included in every article on a work of science fiction, as science fiction ostendibly differentiates itself from fantasy based on being hypothetically possible (whereas, by contrast, fantasy is presumed to be impossible, which I personally find offensive and insulting, but that's another issue altogether). I'd like to at least see if we can't attempt to salvage this. I think the first order of business should be to mark what needs reliable sources, and what is original research. I've taken the liberty of adding {{Fact}} tags to statements that appear to be uncited research, and I've put sentences that definitely qualify as original research in bold. If this is inappropriate, please revert. --Þórrstejn [ˡθoɝ.staɪʲn]: Hammer of Thor ^talk 12:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Plausible or not, it wouldn't change the fact that the arguments are original research without references. If the arguments are verifiable, then go ahead and try, but otherwise it has no place in Wikipedia. --76.214.199.83 (talk) 22:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Implausibilities

• In the extended version, a plaque is shown to them at the end of the movie, revealing that they are standing at the top of Mount Everest. While it is not possible for water levels to have risen so high, it is still plausible for the air there to be breathable‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› . Air pressure at sea level does not noticeably change as sea level varies‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› . Even an unrealistic rise in sea level of 5 miles would decrease sea level air pressure by only around 0.25%‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› .

• The concept of a map showing the location of dry land would have been nonsensical, given the literal lack of landmarks. Instead, the tattoo references "dry land" via coordinates in latitude and longitude, written in some variant of Chinese‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  (as Gregor was able to interpret it with a China Airlines route map, and plotted his route using a sextant).

• Everyone on the tanker smokes‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› , and cigarettes are considered a very valuable commodity. The presence of cigarettes in this setting is, however, extremely implausible, as most cigarettes‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  have a shelf life of no longer than a few months, which would not be enough time for Earth's surviving population to forget that dry land ever existed.

I think the majority of this "implausibility" is simply a falsehood. Most cigarettes are already several months old by the time we buy them, and I've found cigarettes in my home that were very likely to be several years old, having been stuck under a piece of furniture, exposed to unpleasant conditions, and (obviously) outside the package; cigarettes thus treated might taste "musty" for the first drag or two, but the flavor has changed so little that one can still pretty easily identify the brand just by taste. --Þórrstejn [ˡθoɝ.staɪʲn]: Hammer of Thor ^talk 12:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

• It is also implausible that there are still so many functioning machines, given the length of time suggested between the melting of the icecaps and the beginning of the story. Additionally, though the store of oil is shown, no refinery is shown.

• The Mariner's "mutations", specifically his fish-like gills that allow him to apparently "breathe" ocean water, are extremely unlikely. Even mammals that live underwater, like whales and dolphins, did not evolve gills. It is not possible for a warm-blooded creature to supply itself with enough oxygen using only small gills [3]. Beyond that, the plausibility of developing an entirely new respiratory system without any larger gene pool having the same trait is also questionable.

I would also point out here that there is nothing to indicate the Mariner's "gills" functioned the same way as fishes' gills, so the statement regarding the plausibility of "developing an entirely new respiratory system" is flawed from the start -- lengthening the eustachean tubes so that they actually connect from their starting point inside the ears all the way to the lungs rather than stopping in the throat and strengthening the lung tissue and muscle, enabling them to expand and contract underwater, would probably be sufficient to allow a mammal to continue breathing oxygen even while submerged in water. I'm certainly not suggesting that we include such information, as this would be original research, but it demonstrates that even with a reference cited for the undoubted improbability of a mammal evolving gills, there's a POV issue, unless we can include a reference indicating that this would not require an "entirely new respiratory system", which we are unlikely to find. However -- the character Gregor does express a view of evolution ("I'd be surprised if there weren't others, and if there aren't, there will be eventually", implying that natural selection somehow causes random members of the gene pool to spontaneously begin sprouting whatever features might possibly be beneficial in the environment, a la X-Men or Poke-E-Man) that is fundamentally wrong and demonstrates a decidely crackheaded understanding of evolutionary biology, something we can easily cite a reference for and also link to the Wikipedia page on evolution. --Þórrstejn [ˡθoɝ.staɪʲn]: Hammer of Thor ^talk 12:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

• "Sea level" in Waterworld is apparently about 28,000 feet, seeing as the peak of Mount Everest is negligably higher than water level. This means the total area of dry land on Earth would be scarcely larger than an acre or two‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  in Nepal and China (Tibet). Furthermore, the Mariner apparently dives under the ocean to Denver (elevation: 5,280 feet), which is implausible considering he would have to dive over 23,000 feet and withstand the ensuing pressure.

• One of the workers on the tanker is an old man who floats in a small boat on the surface of the oil in the hold, presumably as a "level monitor" to keep the Deacon informed about the level of the oil. Any human attempting to do this would not be able to avoid breathing the hydrocarbon vapors that would be present in the airspace above the oil, and thus would become very sick or die.

• At the end of the film, Helen offers a flower to the two skeletons in a spontaneous gesture. It is very unlikely that she could have acquired such a custom if she had never seen a flower.

My third and final coment: Neanderthals used to spread flower pedals over graves. While Homo sapiens neanderthalensis was a cousin and not an ancestor of modern man, this could have been, or in times since become, an instinctive gesture that is more biological than cultural. In any event, I doubt anyone would argue that making inferences about human behavior that take a POV on the nature versus nurture issue is something that this article should be aiming to do. --Þórrstejn [ˡθoɝ.staɪʲn]: Hammer of Thor ^talk 12:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

• At the beginning of the film, Costner's character urinates in a strange device producing drinkable liquid from his urine. Will anyone explain me, why couldn't the device be used to convert the sea water? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.17.0.61 (talk) 04:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

There is no way melting icecaps could totally cover the planet with water. In fact, the icecaps have totally melted in the past and there was still most of the land that we have today back then. If the Earth been totally covered by water where would the dinosaurs have lived?? T.Neo (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

• Midway through the film, Helen says, "Enola is like a mirror," but later on exclaims "...that reflective glass! You have things that people have never seen!" --24.97.30.210 (talk) 21:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Plot summary

At some 1600 words, the plot summary was incredibly long and rambling. I'v replaced it with a shorter version adapted from this older revision. --Tony Sidaway 22:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Box Office flop

Although it would appear that the film made its budget back with its overseas takings, this is actually not true as a film needs to make three times its budget back to be considered a hit. This is because theatres take almost half of the film's gross and then there are marketing and distribution costs as well as immediate inflation costs to be considered. If Waterworld was made for $175m and grossed a total of $264m, that means that Universal would still not have recouped their investment. Therefore, the film was a box office flop.79.66.87.237 (talk) 18:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

^Kind of a silly 'argument'. The movie DID turn a profit eventually. You are comparing apples to oranges by comparing the movie to a HIT. It may not have been a HIT that grossed 3x its budget, but Waterworld was profitable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.64.54.180 (talk) 09:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

No valid source that says that, but plenty to say it was a flop. 88.104.17.66 (talk) 04:12, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Expand

Considering how big of a story this movie was (because of its enormous budget,back when it opened) it deserves a more in-depth article. Also, the cast section offers nothing new. I included an expansion tab. - SoSaysChappy (talk) 06:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Mt. Everest was the "Big Secret", seriously?

Extended content

So, let me get this straight. People have managed to pass down all nuances of the English language yet the fact (known by children all over the world) that Mt. Everest is the highest point on earth and it's location was completely forgotten? Seriously? You'd think once the polar ice caps randomly decide to start melting, knowing that Mt. Everest exists would probably be some useful information. If any movie deserves an "Inaccuracies" or "Implausibilities" section, it is this movie (the page for 2001: A Space Odyssey has one). When the Implausibilities section gets republished, I'd like to add the following: The Smoker's oil tanker was filled with crude oil. Unless they had an oil refinery on the ship, I'm not sure where they are getting Gasoline for their jetskis and boats. Enough time has passed for genetic mutations to show up in humans and giant sea monsters to evolve, yet there's still a supply of working cigarette lighters, ammunition and running jetskis? If a person could actually develop gills, they would have to be significantly larger than the surface area of the inside of human lungs, not small slits behind the ears. The underwater "kiss of life" scene would never work. Gills turn water into oxygen straight into the bloodstream, it doesn't convert water into breathable air. When Diving down to Denver, Helen would have ran out of air in her diving bell (unless I just didn't see a pumping device). She also would have suffered from The Bends upon resurfacing. How was Mt. Everest the "Big Secret" of the movie? Is this not the first place anyone would go looking for dry land? If "many centuries have passed, perhaps many millennia.", how does Dennis Hopper still have a distinct Southern American accent? For a world where no polar ice caps exist, it really didn't seem that hot outside. Especially in Nepal. If drinkable water is such a scare commodity, how come there are no rain-water collectors? If The Mariner can instantly distill urine into drinking water using a bodged together machine, why can't they build something to distill ocean water in larger quantities? A few glass cylinders of water can't produce enough Hydrogen to fill an airship. old rags, apparently the building material for the airship, aren't air tight. You can't bungee jump with regular rope. I seriously doubt people could actually row a large oil tanker. (Mythbusters??) Crude oil isn't EXPLOSIVE. Melting ice caps = 30,000 ft rise in ocean levels? Off by a factor of 100. Try 300 ft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.166.152 (talk) 12:34, 18 January 2009 (UTC) Go ahead and add an "implausibilities" section to the article if you wish, although I personally don't believe it necessary. It is a science fiction film, after all. Besides, most of the points you raised are actually minor plot holes and easily explained away, and most are explained in the novelization of the film. Ironically, you haven't mentioned some of the film's really big plot holes. The last point you raised is one of the biggies, although there are other big plot holes you havn't mentioned. I could counter-argue just about every other point you raised, but I think that kind of discussion would be best reserved for this film's message board on the internet movie database, not on the discussion page of the film's encyclopedic article. Jimd (talk) Here, here. About time someone defended this fine film that was not supposed to be a treatise on physics, oceanography, math and everyone else bring to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.96.184 (talk) 23:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC) It's only fair to deal with physics also, as the movie is supposed to base on science (i.e. climate change). Wikipedia teaches: "The mean height of land above sea level is 840 m" This could be compared to the calculated water rise (70 m) in case of polar caps total melting. Even the often-referred 70 m is incorrect since it does not consider at all the eutectic phenomena of the lithosphere. The earth's upper astenosphere mantle is not rigid but fluid on which the lithosphere is floating. Any increase of the ocean weight (due melting ice) will push the ocean floor downwards correspondingly and the mantle fluid will eutectically rise the neighbouring continental crust floor. The overall effect due a total ice meltdown would be ca. 14 m sea vs. land level rise. With the exception of ice ages, the earth polar caps have been bare all the time. We now live an ice ace (quaternary period) which has lasted for ca. 2.5 My. During it the continental glaciations in the polar regions have existed uninterrupted. When it ends the caps will melt down but the continents do not disappear. They are billions of years old by now. They don't disappear even due plate tectonics since continents float on astenosphere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.188.8.27 (talk) 14:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC) This entire section is off-topic chat and [[WP:OR|original research. Article talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not for general discussion of the topic. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2012 (UTC) References

About "Key" Inspiration

Why isn't quoted "The Incredible Tide" by Alexander Hill Key, published in 1970s? Check it out on wikipedia. A notorious Anime was taken from it: Myiazaki's Future Boy Conan. 82.184.39.201 (talk) 01:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC) I sign it "Andrea" since I don't hold an account in English Wikipedia...

The brine pool

"The atollers, fearful of him, vote to "recycle" him by drowning him in a yellow sludge-like brine pool."

How would they be able to drown him if he has gills?--80.141.244.60 (talk) 18:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The brine pool is not a "yellow sludge brine pool they maintain for composting". It is where they are building new land. All waste - including dead people - goes into it. It is not for compost!203.184.41.226 (talk) 05:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Implausability/inaccuracy

I just do not understand, and am shocked, shocked that criticism and comments have been made here that call into question the plausability or hypothetical accuracy of a Hollywood movie. Does anyone seriously believe that the things that happen in a Hollywood movie especially one with lots of special effects couln't really happen. Oh come on, next you're going to try to tell me that an oversize giant gorilla couln't climb exterior of the Empire State building and bat airplanes out of the sky. I need to be told these things boys and girls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.107.246 (talk) 00:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Aquatic Ape Theory

Was this film inspired at all by the aquatic ape hypothesis? -Kylelovesyou (talk) 04:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

If the sevel level was 28,000 like it has been said there actually might of been 3 dry lands then but very small thought there are two other mountains that peak alittle above 28,000 feet. K2 and Kangchenjunga —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.164.75 (talk) 03:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC) so maybe a drifter in the movie if they got really lucky would see a very small island maybe 100 feet high sticking out of the water. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.164.75 (talk) 03:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Atolls

For some reason this article stated that atollls are a type of island that no longer exists. I deleted it. The entire country of the Maldives is made of atolls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.106.43 (talk) 21:11, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Aren't atolls natural coral formations that the civilizations could theroetically use to build the walls and civilizations that were shown in the film? The article makes it seems like the atolls are man-made floating things... 98.207.255.59 (talk) 19:48, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Black Death Vodka, not Cigs

Black Death is the brand of Vodka the smokers have, not the brand of Cigarettes. I'll try to remedy the section best I can though. Aryeonos71.94.63.105 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Movie not avaiable on Netflix as of 2/20/12

The article mentions that an extended cut of the film is on Netflix but I did not find the film on Netflix at all. Maybe the Netflix reference should be removed. Dsyn22 (talk) 06:53, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Several problems here. Yes, it is available on Netflix. It is not available to stream on Netflix, but the DVD is available on Netflix. Yeah, if the edited version is the only one available on DVD, that will be the one available there. (That's how DVD rental works. Kinda like how the edited version is the only one available at Jimmie's DVD Hut in downtown Palookaville.) However, there are no sources discussing this or the laundry list of differences someone noticed. If it's meaningful, reliable sources will have discussed it. We don't have any at the moment. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Tattoo

Just a bit of trivia. The tattoo map is written in Chinese (with a single Japanese character). Translated it gives the coordinates 86° 56' Latitude 27° 59' Longitude with no compass points. These coordinates are either in the Arctic Ocean or in the Southern Ocean depending on which compass points used, all four possible locations are around 6,000km from Mt Everest. The coordinates of Mount Everest are actually 27° 59'N Latitude 86° 56'E Longitude. Wayne (talk) 02:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Global Warming

The movie is advertising the ultimate in Global Warming scare. The idea portrayed by Hollywood with this movie is that the end result of Global Warming is the melting of the Polar Ice Caps with enough water to cover the entire mountain ranges on earth. I view this movie as a Comedy, and very fun to watch. One cannot get mad at the movie on scientific terms, after all this is Hollywood! Kevin Costner and all his ilk live in a Looney Left-Wing fringe where some of them actually take this Global Warming issue to the ultimate FANTASY extreme. This is not Science Fiction! This is a Comedy/Fantasy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Easeltine (talk • contribs) 17:48, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Easeltine. Thanks for your comments, but we are supposed to use the talk page of Wikipedia articles to discuss improving the contents. You can see the guidelines at WP:NOTAFORUM. There are a lot of other places where one can discuss this film and other films, such as IMDb. Erik (talk | contribs) 18:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The hidden message of this movie is Global Warming by Hollywood. This issue brought up in the article would improve the contents of the Article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Easeltine (talk • contribs) 18:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Your comments also fall under original research I'm afraid, so aren't applicable either. Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Soil not dirt

The article makes numerous references to "dirt". What is meant is of course soil. I suggest that the ambiguous Americanism "dirt" be changed to the more correct "soil".203.184.41.226 (talk) 04:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Except that in the movie, it is continuously referred to as "dirt", not "soil". I don't think the word "soil" was ever mentioned in the movie. Besides, Americanisms are acceptable in an article about an American movie--Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 17:45, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

I would disagree if the term is ambiguous, as it definitely is here. When I read "to trade dirt", I at first assumed the Costner character was selling either porn or compromising information on someone! Perhaps the word "dirt" should be in quotes, to make clear this is how it was termed in the film. In any case, without the link to the "Soil" article, it would surely be misunderstood by most non-American readers (not everyone follows up links, especially with words whose meaning appears to be clear). I'd likewise remove any ambiguous Britishisms (such as "chemist" for "pharmacist", or "rubber" for "eraser") from Wikipedia articles.213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:29, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Real oil tanker or mock-up

I think this is it http://i.imgur.com/2KJ1Yh8h.jpg - prop mock up? Maybe something about it could be in the article. Huge prop.

86.139.150.100 (talk) 12:15, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Origin of Smokers’ name

“Leading the raid is ‘the Deacon’, captain of a derelict oil tanker, the Exxon Valdez, and the overall leader of the Smokers. They are known as such due to the crude fuel they create, using oil from the tanker to power their machines.”

Is this certain? I thought they were called smokers because there had been a huge cache of cigarettes aboard the Exxon Valdez and everyone aboard were chain smokers, even the kids.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 13:59, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Universal Studios

The last sentence of the last paragraph of the intro section is a bit poorly worded "The film's release was accompanied by a tie-in novel, video game, and three themed attractions at Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal Studios Singapore, and Universal Studios Japan called Waterworld: A Live Sea War Spectacular, which are all still running as of 2015."

While the film's release brought about the themed attractions, accompanied implies that they were introduced at a similar time as the movie, but Universal Studios Singapore and Universal Studios Japan did not exist at the time. 180.232.68.82 (talk) 05:49, 22 July 2015 (UTC)pedant

Waterworld and the underwater Denver scene

(Moved from my talk page.)

Rather than undo your re-edit, I figured I'd talk to you about it directly.

I can understand and appreciate the desire to be accurate in the article, but the underwater city in question is self-evident given the landmark(s). If I look at another similar example: Planet of the Apes, we can see that at the end of the plot section, the article clearly states that Taylor (the main character) encounters the Statue of Liberty despite the movie never stating it by name. I'm not sure that adding a citation needed tag is appropriate there, just as I'm not sure it's really appropriate in the Waterworld article.

Plus, the self-citation seems tenuous at best. For example, there are multiple versions of this movie, and citing a specific time for the scene/frame in question is going to be inherently inaccurate.

Finally, I feel confident in saying I've read many upon many plot sections of movie articles -- I've honestly never seen a citation (much less a self-citation) within the plot section. If you know of one offhand, I'd be very interested in a link to it to see how the generally accepted format is. Jeffersonspark (talk) 09:35, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi there.

I agree with you, in that a landmark lends credence to the location, but my point is that unlike the Statue of Liberty, the Wells Fargo Center is not world famous, so those outside America (or possibly even some within America) will now know that it's a landmark in the first place. We don't need to point out that it's the Status of Liberty, just as we don't need to point out that the building destroyed by the aliens in Independence Day is the White house - those are unarguably world famous, but the same cannot be said of the Wells Fargo Center - however (again) I'm not saying that this is an unreliable source or needs removing, just that it needs clarifying.

To me - and most likely many others watching the film - there's nothing to show that the city is Denver. The cash register building is just a building in the background. All I was asking was that you included a cite to say something along the lines of <ref>The [[Wells Fargo Center]] is clearly visible during the underwater scene</ref>, or you could add to the plot that they pass the center, bypassing the need for a ref completely.

Generally you are correct - a plot doesn't need sources as it's accepted that the film/novel/TV show is an acceptable source in itself, however in this case part of the plot that is not apparent to non-US citizens needs clarification. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:06, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

As another editor just changed "Denver" to "Chicago" I thought it best for this to be moved to the article talk page, so others can weigh in if they feel the need. Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:30, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I think it is borderline OR to identify the city. You see no world famous landmarks in the sequence, so it is quite possible the filmmakers just used Denver as a model for some anonymous city. If they had intended the city to be identifiable they could have shown him swimming around the Eiffel Tower or the White House. The clear intention behind the Statue of Liberty in Planet of the Apes was to prey upon the audience's general knowledge to deliver the big twist, but the identity of the city in Waterworld is obscure for anyone not familiar with Denver, and therefore not integral to the plot. It is simply not necessary to identify the city to convey the plot. It may be justifiable if the rest of the article provided the background for the sequence but it doesn't even do that. Betty Logan (talk) 10:01, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

The implication is that Denver, being the highest altitude major city in the US, would be the shallowest to reach by diving, so the filmmakers showed as well known a landmark as they could (I suppose they could've used something like Mexico City, Bogotá, or Quito which are higher altitude, but even less Americans would've recognized those). There are reliable sources, such as this interview with the guy that actually built the models for that scene, however, in the case of the plot summary, why not just say "The Mariner puts her in a diving bell and swims her down to the ruins of city, past a building that resembles the Wells Fargo Center, where he collects dirt and scrap from the bottom of the sea." --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 17:41, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Video Games

Is there any source for the claim that the SNES release was only available in UK and Australia?

I had a copy of that game in Germany, with a German-language manual but English-language in-game text (as was very common for a lot of games at that time). --Skyrock84 (talk) 21:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

We apparently have an article on the game. It's not well-sourced, though. IGN has a Water World game indexed that was released in AU, JP, UK, and US: link. It looks like this is probably the video game mentioned in the article, but it's not easy to tell without some kind of summary that says "based on the Kevin Costner film". NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:41, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

"mostly mixed" reviews

What exactly is "mostly mixed" supposed to mean here - were some reviews NOT mixed? "Mixed" can surely only refer to the reviews as a whole (i.e. they weren't mostly positive or mostly negative), not to each review taken individually. Or is "mixed" perhaps being used here - wrongly - as a euphemism for "bad"? I think "mostly" should simply be deleted.213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:12, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Broken Cite media tl

I have hidden the broken tl until we can get it resolved.

I have also left out the original cn, as a ref has been provided, it just cannot be displayed yet as it is a broken template (or at least, appears to be!) Chaosdruid (talk) 17:54, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

"PortuGreek" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect PortuGreek. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 10#PortuGreek until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm _Talk 19:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Inconsistency about sea level rise

Article intro and plot body give different figures about how much the sea has risen, which is it? 199.7.159.31 (talk) 22:12, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

It was changed a few months ago without any reason given. It was consistent before the change so I have reverted the edit back to what it was. Betty Logan (talk) 01:41, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

"The Atoll set sank in a hurricane and had to be rebuilt": an urban legend?

Claims has been swirling around the internet for a while that a significant reason for Waterworld's high cost and budget overruns was the damage or destruction of the Atoll set in a major storm, which required it to be rebuild at huge expense. This was even repeated (uncited) on a previous version of this page.

However, I have been unable to find any reliable sources for this. Nothing of the sort is mentioned in the documentaries included on the Blu-ray, or in period news articles about production difficulties, which are otherwise very frank about the problems encountered by the crew during filming.

I've taken it off the page since I can't find any evidence this particular story is true. Voteins (talk) 18:28, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

This is actually true. I recall reading about it at the time in Empire magazine. Betty Logan (talk) 07:41, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I did some more research and found a definitive period news article: Waterworld -- The Big Guys Go On Record About All Those Rumors. Speaking with Chuck Gordon, one of the film's co-producers:

Report: The movie's most expensive set, the $4 million, 126-ton atoll, sank during production.

Actually it was the smaller "slave colony" set and, Gordon says, the bulk of the shooting already had been completed, and most of the crew had returned to L.A.

That the slave colony set sank (or rather tipped over) is well documented, including in the WSJ article I previously posted. Going to add some clarification to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Voteins (talk • contribs) 21:48, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for getting to the bottom of it. I knew I had read it at the time, but couldn't recall any of the details. Betty Logan (talk) 14:20, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Everest twist not mentioned in the final cut

The plot section states that Dryland "is revealed to be the top of Mount Everest," but that detail was cut from the final version of the film. Would it be more informative to say something like " which is revealed to be the top of Mount Everest in the extended version"? Friendsfreak0 (talk) 23:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I’ve made the edit; feel free to remove it if it doesn’t belong. Friendsfreak0 (talk) 19:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

It's not particularly relevant. If it isn't established in all cuts the location doesn't need to be included. Betty Logan (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)