Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems. Before posting: Read these tips for dealing with incivility If the issue concerns a specific user, try discussing it with them on their talk page Try dispute resolution Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly. Be brief and include diffs demonstrating the problem Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead go to Requests for oversight. When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough. You may use {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~ to do so. You are not autoconfirmed, meaning you cannot currently edit this page. Instead, use /Non-autoconfirmed posts. Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)
Start a new discussion

Improper vanishing and restoration of a deleted article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Last year, I had a protracted debate at an AfD with Errico Boukoura. TLDR: the nominated article, which was written by him, used unencyclopedic language and the author bypassed proper AfC, after several failed AfC submissions, by removing the controversial parts and adding them back after passing AfC. At the AfD, everybody, except the author, agreed with deletion. After the deletion, the author vanished.

Today, I noticed the article (with a slightly differently spelled name) exists again. The unencyclopedic language is similar, if I remember well, to the original article. It was created just a few days after the closure of the AfD by IlEssere in their very first edit. Some historical revisions even use phrasing I remember from the original article:

• The transformation of the building into an artists hub elevated its status in the Athenian subculture art scene.
• The building came to symbolize the vibrant artistic community of the city, hosting a variety of exhibitions, performances, and initiative projects
• Today, the building of Keramikou 28 stands as a symbol of the Athenian art scene through the numerous exhibitions, performances, and projects hosted within its walls

Also note that the current article passed AfC, albeit in a much shorter version than the current text.

Pinging editors who participated in the AfD: @Explicit, Star Mississippi, S Marshall, XOR'easter, HandThatFeeds, and Daniel. Also pinging @ToadetteEdit, who approved the current article at AfC.

– Janhrach (talk) 14:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

 Note: I forgot to note, to avoid confusion, that the current article is not a verbatim restoration of the deleted one. Janhrach (talk) 14:55, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I just got pinged; I didn't remember reviewing the draft and didn't noticed the AfD, but to be clear, doesn't the article meet G4 of speedy deletion? ToadetteEdit (talk) 15:09, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

When I thought that G4 applies, eligible page should be identical, and the substantial addition since the acceptance makes it ineligible, if I interpret policy properly. Other than that an AfD may be appropriate as I fail to verify any qualifying sources in the article that makes the building notable. ToadetteEdit (talk) 15:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure if you’re referring to the original page or the one I created. Regarding the page I created, the articles in Greek are the ones that mention the points you're addressing. IlEssere (talk) 15:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

For the record, I am referring to your (recreated) article. ToadetteEdit (talk) 15:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

All information added to the page is referenced, though most sources are in Greek, as this building is in Athens and has primarily gained attention locally.

You can share which specific parts you are referring so I can help with the transition of the reference. IlEssere (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• Translation IlEssere (talk) 15:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion, I meant this edit, which happened after the AfD. You reviewed the recreated article, not the original one (that which was deleted). Janhrach (talk) 15:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Saw the diff, just realized that G4 would have applied, given that it was not caught by the helper script nor PageCuration to the least (given that Atlantic306 had given the article a pass) I am not sure whether G4 applies now or not with the current expanded version. ToadetteEdit (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm new to Wikipedia and still learning some of the terms, so I'm not familiar with what AfD means. I actually started using Wikipedia because of Keramikou 28. I came across an article related to it that had incorrect information and was poorly written, but I unfortunately lost track of it before I could figure out what happened to it.

After some research, I created a new page myself to provide accurate information on the topic. IlEssere (talk) 15:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

AfD=Articles for deletion ToadetteEdit (talk) 15:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification! It seems others have also noted that the original page may not have been properly written besides me.

As for the page o created, I'd really appreciate any guidance on ensuring the page I created meets Wikipedia's standards. If you have suggestions or would like to make any corrections or add relevant information, please feel free to do so. IlEssere (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Please see this. Janhrach (talk) 15:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

What about this? IlEssere (talk) 16:01, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

If you lost track of what happened to the article that had incorrect information, then why its historical revisions of your article contain text fragments from the old, deleted article? Janhrach (talk) 15:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

As I mentioned earlier, Keramikou 28 is what motivated me to start using Wikipedia. I initially copied the entire page to work on corrections offline, intending to upload them later. However, when I went to add the updates, I found that the page was no longer there, losing track of what happened.

Please feel free to make any corrections you find necessary on the page I created. If you have any questions about the Greek references, I’d be happy to help with translations for verification. IlEssere (talk) 15:57, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The notice about the AfD discussion was on the top of the article for two weeks. Janhrach (talk) 16:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I don’t remember if I saw the AfD notice or not, as this was about a year ago. A friend told me that the had gone through some conversations about the relation of the page, but didn’t know what happened. I’m still quite new to Wikipedia and learning how everything works, so there’s a lot I’m still figuring out. IlEssere (talk) 16:09, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

So you say that the author of the deleted article is a friend of yours? Janhrach (talk) 16:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

No, I said a friend that had gone through some conversations. IlEssere (talk) 16:21, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

What conversations? Do you mean they participated in the AfD? Janhrach (talk) 16:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

So this is substantially a recreation of the deleted article, and should be G4'ed. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:07, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The problem is that while past revisions would certainly qualify for G4, the current one contains a lot of content not present is the deleted article, so it is not eligible. Janhrach (talk) 16:10, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

No, this is not a copy-paste of the previous page. I used the structure of the original as a framework, but I worked on it and made changes to create new content." IlEssere (talk) 16:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Long story short: Last year, @Errico Boukoura: created a draft for the topic, It was submitted 5 times and it was declined by 3 distinct reviewers including a rejection by @Greenman:. Apparently the decline was due to the article's tone. It was then reviewed by an experienced reviewer and accepted it, vbut later it was sent to AfD and deleted on grounds of wp:tnt. A few days later, another created the draft and was accepted five months later. Based on this, the article is plausibly notable, so the issue should be around the prose and/or the editor. ToadetteEdit (talk) 16:12, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the info. Could you provide some guidance on how I can improve the prose? IlEssere (talk) 16:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but it is important to note that reviewed version of the original article was significanly abridged, and the removed content was re-added after review. Janhrach (talk) 16:16, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand, and I’ve made changes to this. I’ve significantly abridged the content and removed unnecessary details to make the article more concise and focused. IlEssere (talk) 16:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

My comment was about the original article created by Errico Boukoura. Janhrach (talk) 16:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I admire your honesty, but it is impossible to verfy without the ability to view deleted revisions. ToadetteEdit (talk) 16:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean? IlEssere (talk) 16:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Viewing and restoring deleted pages. ToadetteEdit (talk) 16:35, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were an admin, so you could verify my claims. Janhrach (talk) 16:30, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• In my opinion (thanks for the ping), this is not a G4, but nor does it address the issues which go far beyond prose. I have opened Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keramikou 28 where the content is best discussed. If IlEssere's conduct needs assessing, this should remain open. If this is deleted, a note should be relayed to AfC reviewers to keep an eye out for spelling variations and that it's best left for experienced reviewers. Star Mississippi 16:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  Could you share the present issues t on the current Keramikou 28 page that go beyond prose? Understanding these factors would be helpful in addressing the article's suitability. Additionally, are there specific elements (like sourcing or content focus) that you find problematic in its current version? IlEssere (talk) 16:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  IlEssere, article improvement is not a subject that is dealt with at ANI. I recommend asking any editors who reviewed the article for Articles for Creation if you went through that process or asking at the Teahouse. I also recommend participating in the AFD linked here so you can hear the critique of the article by editors, that might provide guidance on how to improve it. Good luck. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:55, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am currently participating in the AFD discussion, but I've been advised to come back here to understand what the specific problems with the page are. I'm feeling a bit confused because the opinions on here seem to overlap, and I'm not sure what the main concerns are. Could someone help me understand the key issues that need to be addressed for this article? IlEssere (talk) 22:10, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  IlEssere, I'm not sure why anyone would tell you to return to ANI. This noticeboard deals with editor conduct, not content issues. This is not the forum to come to for advice on improving this article and your time is best spent elsewhere. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:32, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Star Mississippi IlEssere (talk) 01:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Liz I did send @IlEssere back here and the prior AfD to read all of the arguments already made about why the article should not have been re-created. IlEssere it's fine if you disagree, but you really do need to listen to the other editors' input especially in the prior discussion. Liz's suggestion about the AfC declines will also help. Star Mississippi 04:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you for your input. I just want to clarify that I'm not disagreeing. I'm genuinely trying to figure out the best approach for the article and understand how to move forward. IlEssere (talk) 04:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - This is a situation where the spelling of the title of an article has been changed when it is recreated after a deletion. This is an all-too-common practice, in particular when the name of the subject is transliterated from a non-Latin writing system. This is a situation in which it is difficult to assume good faith, because it appears to be gaming the title, which is a conduct issue However, since the article has been nominated for deletion, we can focus on the content issue at the AFD and ignore the conduct. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank for clarifying this. I tried to clarify the problems with the page at its AfD, but @Star Mississippi directed me here to find the reason why the article was AfD. IlEssere (talk) 01:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  @IlEssere, you cannot understand the point. The article was sent to AfD because it is a recreated article that is not a G4 and neutrality as on the old deleted one is still disputed. ToadetteEdit (talk) 05:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oh, I understand what the problem is now. I confused since other things where mentioned on here. IlEssere (talk) 13:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

The article should be, of course, discussed at AfD. But I think conduct should also be discussed, as there are plenty of reasons to think that IlEssere and Errico Boukoura are the same person:

1. The new article was created only a few days after the deletion of the old one. IlEssere explains this by saying that they copied the old article, worked on it, and uploaded their more-or-less finished work after the deletion. But the oldest revisions of Keramikou 28 do not seem to indicate this. They look like IlEssere restored verbatim fragments of the original article (Some passages are familiar to me, some less so, so I am not absolutely sure.) and worked on them on-wiki.
2. IlEssere claimed they didn't know what AfD means. However, they mentioned the AfD process in this Teahouse post. I find it highly unlikely that they would forget about the existence of AfD. Even if they had forgotten the name, I linked the AfD discussion above. I think it is very unlikely that they wouldn't remember even after visiting the AfD page.
3. Do not see a good-faith reason why would IlEssere leave the significant expansion of the current article for after the AfC, especially noting that they claim to be a completely new and unexperienced editor.
4. The language of the current article is similar to the previous one.
5. Both IlEssere and Errico Boukoura claim to speak English, Greek and Italian on their user page.
6. Notice the "Articles contributed" list on IlEssere's user page. It seems to be a list of all article they have edited. They list the article Theodoros Stamos there. However no edits have been made to the article by IlEssere. The last edit to the page is by Errico Boukoura.

IlEssere hasn't defensed themselves convincingly yet.

– Janhrach (talk) 10:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I’ve addressed most of these concerns previously.

1. I discovered the Keramikou 28 page around the time it was deleted and noticed it had a lot of misinformation and was poorly written. Since I was new to Wikipedia, I copied the entire page and began working on improving it on my own with more accurate information, better tone, correct references, and a more suitable image.
2. As for AfD, until it was brought up again, I wasn’t entirely sure what it was. When I first posted in the Teahouse, I only knew from a tech-savvy friend who followed the original Keramikou 28 AfD process that the page had been deleted due to poor references. To clarify, as @Janhrach mentioned, I am *not* connected to the previous creator.
3. Could you clarify what you mean by “similar”?
4. If you are talking about the tone, I disagree that the new version resembles the old one, which I remember as being highly promotional.
5. While I do speak English, Greek, Spanish, Italian, French, German, and Arabic, I don’t think that sharing some of the same languages as Boukoura means we are the same person.
6. Lastly, I have made improvements to each article listed on my profile, including the Theodoros Stamos page.

IlEssere (talk) 13:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Are you trying to say that this was the result of your offline work?

You said "I'm not familiar with what AfD means." and when ToadetteEdit responded "AfD=Articles for deletion", you were satisfied. This is not consistent with your reply that you weren't "entirely sure what it was".

As for the language in the old article, I will quote S Marshall:

The WP:TONE is unencyclopaedic; (2) its style is WP:EMPHATIC; and (3) it isn't WP:TERSE. It's full of needless modifiers (adjectives and adverbs), some of which border on peacocking. Someone really passionate about Kerameiko28 might write the content we're considering on an information leaflet -- we, as dispassionate and objective encyclopaedia writers, need to be succinct, direct, and clear.

This description also fits the current article.

Can you please post the diff in which you edited Theodoros Stamos? Was it this one or this one?

– Janhrach (talk) 15:36, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I didn’t even remember this, I thought you were referring to the current page. I'm not sure when I created that one, it was likely early edits in my Wikipedia.

What I tried to do was; copy the original page and make corrections, intending to update to how the current Keramikou 28 page looks.

As for AfD, I now know what it is, so lets focus on the current page.

Concerning my edits on Theodoros Stamos, I need to review them, as I can't recall when I made the edits. As you can see on my page, I have been editing numerous entries recently. But please give some time since I am busy in real life. IlEssere (talk) 15:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

This contribution is remarkably similar in key words and editing style to a number by Errico Boukoura seen at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kerameikou 28. I find myself agreeing with Janhrach's hunch above, for whatever that is worth. Daniel (talk) 00:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

The diff I presented is extremely important – it is your very first edit and the edit that created the page that is now nominated for deletion. You said:

As I mentioned earlier, Keramikou 28 is what motivated me to start using Wikipedia. I initially copied the entire page to work on corrections offline, intending to upload them later. However, when I went to add the updates, I found that the page was no longer there, losing track of what happened.

This diff, at least seemingly, disproves this claim. I really fail to see how the text added in it, or in the few following edits, could be seen as a suitable replacement for the now-deleted article. Janhrach (talk) 17:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Backlink: Wikipedia:Teahouse § Articles for deletion/Keramikou 28. Presented without comment: el:Special:History/Κεραμεικού 28, it:Speciale:Cronologia/Keramikou 28. (Indentation level chosen arbitrarily). Folly Mox (talk) 05:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Remarkable how el and it are both languages that User:Errico Boukoura has listed on their userpage as proficient or native, and IlEssere happens to create articles on this topic on both those wikis. At some point, we need to accept what is staring ourselves in the face. Daniel (talk) 10:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I would welcome an uninvolved editor taking an action (be it warning or whatever else) against the bludgeoning of quite big proportions on the AfD. Janhrach (talk) 20:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Can you share more details on why this is bludgeoning? It doesn’t sound like bludgeoning on the AfD. 2601:249:9281:ED10:9185:7724:F13C:799C (talk) 20:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)— 2601:249:9281:ED10:9185:7724:F13C:799C (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Quote from the essay explaining bludgeoning: attempts to force their point of view through a very high number of comments, such as contradicting every viewpoint that is different from their own. Typically, this means making the same argument over and over and to different people in the same discussion or across related discussions. Janhrach (talk) 20:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I know what bludgeoning is in Wikipedia. I was referring to the article and which parts are bludgeoning in this specific page. I’ve went through the references and everything seems to be correct. 2601:249:9281:ED10:9185:7724:F13C:799C (talk) 20:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I referred to the AfD discussion, more specifically to IlEssere's conduct in it, not to the article itself. Janhrach (talk) 20:52, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. In my opinion, the article looks okay and thoroughly researched. I'm not sure why it received an "Adf" since minor details need to be improved. 2601:249:9281:ED10:9185:7724:F13C:799C (talk) 21:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

IlEssere, did you forget to log in? Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 20:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean? IlEssere (talk) 21:35, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

What to do next? Almost everybody who participated in the AfD agreed that IlEssere and Errico Boukoura are the same person. Should I write a note to the AfD for the closing admin to also consider closing this ANI thread? Or should we wait passively until an uninvolved admin comes by and takes an action? Or should a SPI be filed? Janhrach (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

If I had read this ANI first, I would have have blocked IlEssere per WP:DUCK, because the quacks are loud and obivious, IMO. However, since I participated in the AFD as editor, I'm now considered involved to take any admin action. I was hoping another uninvolved admin would come along and come to the same conclusion that I did, but so far, none have. So, maybe I'm wrong. You can try filing a report at WP:SPI, but it's likely that since Errico Boukoura hasn't edited in 10 months, nothing will be concluded as the data will be stale. Of course, I could be wrong on that. Maybe they have logged in. Maybe other sleepers will be found. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 11:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I have been thinking about this and I don't think SPI is a good idea. The evidence is very strong, so they will probably refuse CU. It would just waste their and our time. I have decided I will leave a note at the AfD for the closing admin to consider taking an appropriate action. Janhrach (talk) 16:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Update: I created a SPI case. @Rotideypoc41352: you wanted to mention something on SPI. Janhrach (talk) 20:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. On second thought, my evidence is not as strong as I had originally thought. You've lain out your case with clarity, and I don't want to distract from it, especially when the SPI backlog puts pressure on the admins to work quickly. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

It's quite obvious that IlEssere and Errico Boukoura are the same user. If you choose to WP:VANISH, you go away and don't come back. If this was an attempted WP:CLEANSTART, you should have avoided trying to recreate this article. Besides the obvious connection with the recreation of this deleted article and the timing of it, what are the chances that they are both from New York City (Special:Permalink/1226370017 and User:Errico Boukoura), are native speakers of English, with same proficiencies in Greek, Italian, and Spanish (User:IlEssere vs User:Errico Boukoura)? One is a professor and the other an "art historian"? Now, 2601:249:9281:ED10:9185:7724:F13C:799C comes out of no where and finds this ANI discussion using the same "Can you share..." language? I'm not buying it. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 21:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your thoroughness, but I believe we've already spent considerable time discussing this topic. For the record, (and this is the last time I am talking about this topic) I speak seven languages, two of which seem overlap with the previous user’s according to Jauerback. Additionally, I don’t live in New York City, so I’m not sure what led you to that conclusion.

@Jauerback I’m not entirely sure why, but as I review the AFD of the original article alongside what you’ve shared, the AFD of the new version, and your edit history, it seems you have a strong focus on Keramikou 28 for some reason. IlEssere (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, that's an interesting answer. New York City was listed in a previous version of your user page, linked above. I don't really care how many languages you claim to speak, but both of your user pages list the exact same languages with the exact proficiencies. That's a helluva coincidence. I'm curious, what leads you to believe that I have a strong focus on Keramikou 28? Is it all of my edits to the article (none)? Or is it my single comment in the current AFD for it? Or maybe my (now) three commments on this ANI? Please share. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 21:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to log off for the day and will be back online tomorrow, I have to much work to get down. You seem quite agitated, and I want to clarify that I'm not looking for online conflicts. My intention is simply to have open and honest conversation about our perspectives. I value communication and hope we can discuss this calmly.

But to clarify and address your question before I log off, my concerns extend beyond your focus on Keramikou 28 page. I've observed that your edits appear somewhat random and don't convey a clear interest in the subject matter. As a result, without additional art-related or building-related edits, you are the only user connecting Keramikou 28, both directly and indirectly to Adf.

In addition, there is a consistent effort to find problems with the page or with me personally, regardless of the evidence provided. This ongoing scrutiny raises concerns and feels somewhat suspicious to me. Wikipedia is about collaboration and resolution rather than continual criticism. IlEssere (talk) 22:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• done IlEssere (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  This makes close to zero sense. Are you using a LLM? Also, both you and your IP should get the acronym right. It's AFD, not ADF.Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 03:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think their comments about you were meant to be addressed to me. Janhrach (talk) 14:54, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Correction: IlEssere said he lives in New York City whereas Errico Boukoura only says New York. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 21:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

This seems like it's getting close to outing. If sockpuppetry is involved, it should be discussed at WP:SPI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree that an an SPI might be in order, but how in the world is this close to WP:OUTING? Everything linked is from the involved users and what they've posted on site. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 11:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

You are connecting a registered editor with a location. In SPIs, Checkusers won't connect IP accounts, which reveal locations, with registered editors because of privacy concerns. Unless an editor discloses where they are from on their User page, I think tracking down where they live is a step that shouldn't be taken. If Checkusers won't reveal this data in SPI reports, I don't think it should be posted to a highly public noticeboard. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Special:Permalink/1226370017 looks to me like an editor disclosed where they are from on their User page. jlwoodwa (talk) 08:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I have to disagree. The locations of the IP and what both registered users have revealed as their locaiton on Wiki don't even match up, so that was never even part of my argument. As you know, getting a different IP to get around Wikipedia isn't exactly rocket science, so between that, and the fact that original user hasn't edited in 10 months, an SPI would probably be fruitless. However, this quacks like a WP:DUCK and any passing admin who isn't involved can see that and take action. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 11:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Was digging through some old edits and found Special:Diff/1246695560. I prefer to save a detailed explanation for SPI if possible. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User with systemic bias

Whatsupkarren (talk · contribs) has a track record of editing Wikipedia solely to push a pro-Syrian and anti-Lebanese agenda with disregard to actual academic standards.

Whatsupkarren seems to have an obsession with removing any mentions of figures related to Lebanon as evidenced here [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] (This is only the tip of the iceberg and there are many other articles that follow this pattern some of which I probably have not even found)

This wouldn’t be an issue if Whatsupkarren did similar edits for other articles but they hyper fixate on only removing any mentions of Lebanese/Phoenicians in articles but are fully capable of adding sources for Syrian/assumed to be Syrian figures. Most of the sources I find to revert this take a 2 minute internet search so it's obvious Whatsupkarren is being biased in only removing, and never adding, sources related to Lebanon/Phoenicia but doing the exact opposite when it comes to Syrian/assumed to be Syrian articles.

Furthermore, when Whatsupkarren doesn’t get their way they just dismiss articles they don’t like as “unreliable” [6] [7] even if they were published through universities or other academic sources (They don’t seem to understand that an article/books reliability is based on the original publisher not an online website it can be found on) and just adds original research when they don’t get their way. [8]. Notably they removed a newspaper source that quotes Pope Francis and a bishop as “unreliable” [9] [10] but an article that uses Wikipedia as its source (WP:WINARS) is reliable.[11]

Whatsupkarren also seems to add sources without even looking at them which is essentially original research as they admitted themselves "I'd like proof that the Oxford source which I added cites that source, as I wasn't able to access it." [12] (in regards to the Oxford source which they themselves added)[13] and also here [14] where it seems they just typed a phrase [15] without actually providing a page or quote.

Their obsession with removing anything related to Lebanese goes as far as asking for advice on how to delete entire categories related to the subject. [16]

I suggest a topic ban in relation to Lebanese and Phoenician related articles as there is not really an explanation for this behavior outside of ethnic discrimination which is not what Wikipedia was intended for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Red Phoenician (talk • contribs) 21:48, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm free and allowed to edit any article on wikipedia as long as I'm sourcing my edits with reliable sources & engaging in discussions to resolve potential issues as I have done so many times and also not being as offensive as you have been with me for a while. It was you who started using rude language with me by calling me an illiterate, ridiculing me for making typos, calling my edits trolling even though I was using reliable sources, and trying to provoke me by claiming that I was incompetent. This can be seen in this discussion. Which Red Phoenician refused to continue and refused to answer my concerns which I had raised.

-There's been a trend on Wikipedia for years, where editors have been classifying notable figures as Lebanese without sources. And also classifying common Levantine/Arab/Middle Eastern cultural elements as distinctly "Lebanese" even when they don't have any Lebanese ancestry or when the subject is actually common to the broader Levantine/Middle Eastern region. It seems like this has been going on for quite some time. While I'm sure similar situations might occur with other Middle Eastern countries, the Lebanon-related instances seem to stand out the most. I've been trying to fix that for a while; I'm not racist; I want historical accuracy. If you have any issues with my edits, you could've simply started

discussions on the relevant talk pages to raise your concerns. I am ready to discuss with any user every single one of my edits. It was me and not you who started the two discussions we had.

-Red Phoenician has been wikihounding me for months, very often disruptively, adding sources that are not reliable or don't accurately reflect what they added 1 and 2, using a rude & provocative language with me.

-Red Phoenician has been misusing sources and not adding accurately what the sources they add say.

For example: in the Frumentius article, I removed content that wasn't accurately supported by reliable sources, the article used to say Saint Frumentius was "described as ethnically phoenician", that wasn't & isn't backed by reliable sources. Red Phoenician later reverted my edit and added sources that, still, didn't state that he was described as ethnically Phoenician. Using "ethnically phoenician" is very problematic historically. Later I added a more accurate representation of what Red Phoenician's sources say. And that he might have been Greek too since a book published by Oxford described him as such. Red Phoenician thought my edits were disruptive and show possible trolling.

-Regarding Marina the monk, yes, the source which I removed still isn't working, at least with me. The link seems to be dead. Many saints, who were not from modern day Lebanon used to be in the category of Lebanese Saints. Red Phoenician previously added a saint from what is today Syria to that category and also a saint from persia. No sources anywhere say they were Lebanese. saints who were not from what is today Lebanon were also in this category. The category was a mess, and still is, up to a point. None of the saints in the category are described as Lebanese by cited sources or reliable sources, far as I know, which I think violates WP:NOR. I also didn't want to delete the category as Red Phoenician claimed, more modern saints, for whom we have sources that actually call them Lebanese could be added to this category.

-Red Phoenician added that the city of Byblos had a reputation of being the oldest in antiquity, the source they used doesn’t say so, it doesn’t say the city had a “reputation”, the word reputation implies a belief held by people in general, not only one person. This shows yet again, that the user doesn't show accuracy in a lot of his edits.

-Regarding Jounaton Roumi, in a cited interview he says that his father's father was from Syria. Not Lebanon. Syro basically is a combining form of Syrian-Lebanese. The man said that his grandfather was from Syria. Regardless. I later kept the article as you edited it.

-Regarding, Pamphilus of Caesarea, the sources simply did not say he was Phoenician. So I removed this unsourced claim, and opened a talk page asking whether anyone has sources that call him Phoenician.

You really find that annoying, right?

-"Most of the sources I find to revert this take a 2 minute internet search" although I'm not responsible for adding a source to an unsourced material, I often do my research before removing them.

-Regarding this, you misused your sources, again, your sources, apart from one that you couldn't prove to be reliable, and which I showed wasn't reliable enough, didn't accurately support continuous occupation. This is the main issue and this is why I reverted your edit. Me claiming that researchgate isn't reliable wasn't what led me to remove your edits.

-Not sure how this is original research? This is literally what the source says. Any issues you have with my edits could've been raised on the talk page but you did not do so.

-"Notably they removed a newspaper source that quotes Pope Francis and a bishop as “unreliable”"

First off, why did you not raise your concerns on the talk page discussion that I started?

Secondly, I could not find evidence that the newspaper you had cited is a reliable source, you could've simply explained on the talk page why you think it is. Thirdly, your source doesn't quote Pope Francis, who isn't a subject matter expert, to begin with, it talks about what a Maronite Archbishop who is said to have been a friend of Pope Francis, said.

-"but an article that uses Wikipedia as its source (WP:WINARS) is reliable."

How does this article use Wikipedia as its source? The Sydney Morning Herald is a reliable source per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Regardless, you could've simply raised your concerns in the talk page discussion which I started. Again, this proves your unwillingness to engage in productive discussions.

-"Whatsupkarren also seems to add sources without even looking at them which is essentially original research"

No, the source which I used provides a quote which I provided in the discussion. Without the need to download the whole book.

Regarding the Aleppo book, no, you're wrong again, and you could've simply asked me to provide the page which I would've definitely done. You simply didn't. I copied and pasted the link of the page but Wikipedia links sometimes do not work.

I think this report proves Red Phoenician's unwillingness to engage in discussions to resolve issues, Red Phoenician seems to hold a grudge against me and doesn't like how I've been accurately following Wikipedia's policies. The user also has been engaging in original research for years.

I suggest this user be at least punished for the rude language they used with me. Whatsupkarren (talk) 10:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

It is not rude to point out a user's (WP:COMPETENCE), it is obvious English is not your first language and there is nothing wrong with that but when you constantly mess up pages with grammar issues [17] as you have done just now with “Jounaton Roumi” and “Other non Lebnaese saints” it becomes hard to tell if these are genuine mistakes or some weird form of insult.

There was no point addressing you in the Frumentius talk page as you admitted to original research and asking to access sources you yourself added.

Regarding my addition of Saints to the Lebanese Maronite saints category that was because there never was a standalone Maronite saints category…until I created it. I didn’t contest these or the manakish edits so I don’t see the issue.

“although I'm not responsible for adding a source to an unsourced material, I often do my research before removing them.” This isn’t true as I clarified before because you’re perfectly capable of finding sources of things NOT related to Lebanon/Phoenician but seem incapable when this is the case.

As for the Wikihounding accusations many of the pages you edited were on my watchlist don’t think you’re so special. Of course once I saw it was just removing everything Lebanese ever I reverted those with sources as this is constructive and nothing else.

Rest of this is them acting like they’re not aware of their actions/acting as if the issue is a personal attack and not an issue with the contributions so I hope an admin gives their insight into the issues. Criticism of competence is not rude and they are the only one taking it personal “You really find that annoying, right?” and “Duhh”[18] among others. Wikipedia is not a battleground for passive aggressive ethnic squabbles it’s based on reliable academic sources not getting upset for things such as a Lebanese city having claims to be the oldest. Red Phoenician (talk) 20:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Also it seems they're just trying to get me banned now on baseless accusations instead of accepting any criticism. [19] Red Phoenician (talk) 21:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

You too made grammar mistakes in the past ( I won't call you illiterate though ) even native speakers often make typos and grammar mistakes; that doesn't make it okay to call or even imply someone is illiterate or incompetent when you know that they're able to communicate effectively with you. It is obvious that this language was intended to provoke me. Otherwise, you wouldn't have made fun of me for fixing a typo. The mistake I did on Gibran Khalil page is a typo, not a grammar mistake, I mistyped the name of a Lebanese city. And no I'm not constantly messing up articles, you'd like others to believe so, so that you can justify your rude language.

I did not admit that I engaged in original research, let me explain this to you again, I couldn't access the book, but a quote from the book is provided by Oxford references https://www.oxfordreference.com/search?btog=chap&isQuickSearch=true&q=Meropius+Greek

I already provided the quote on the talk page.

"because there never was a standalone Maronite saints category"

That still doesn't justify adding them to such a category, you should've created a standalone maronite category if you really wanted to add them to a maronite category

"many of the pages you edited were on my watchlist"

But also many, so many of the articles I edited hadn't been touched by you until I stepped in.

most recently this one where you added an unacceptable source per Wikiepdia policies.

Sifting through Red Phoenician's edit history, it becomes obvious that the user has had a pattern of removing the term Arab from articles

1, 2, 3, 4. However, I won't claim that you're ethnically discriminating against Arabs, if I had issues with any of those edits, I would've simply raised my concerns on the relevant talk pages.

I wasn't getting upset over a Lebanese city having claims to be the oldest, i was upset by your inaccurate edits, you keep misusing sources by adding claims not accurately reflected in the sources, you, yourself added. Whatsupkarren (talk) 21:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Stop with the crocodile tears over the typos nobody is insulting you, you are the one going “Duhh” as you view this as a personal issue. You just admitted you couldn’t access the source again…and I said I created a category, you aren’t properly reading what I am saying. As for Massad again I did not contest your removal but added a more reliable source since you ignored Caldwell’s. Yes Maronites are Syriac not Arab and dabke is an ancient Levantine dance unless you are now going to argue that the Canaanites were Arab. As for Byblos if you had an actual issue you would’ve gone to the source dispute resolution instead of only removing the Lebanese/non-Syrian cities from the list while keeping the Syrian ones even without proper sources. Red Phoenician (talk) 23:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

You won't even admit that you used a rude language with me.

-Yes again, for the millionth time, I can't access all of the book, I can access a quote from the book, which means it wasn't original research. You also refused to provide me with the link in the discussion which showed your unwillingness to cooperate, I wanted to verify what you were claiming in that discussion.

-I know that you later created that category, but you shouldn't have added them to the Lebanese category in the first place as that violated wikipedia's policies" AND btw it was me and not you who eventually removed them from that Lebanese category, why ?

-I wasn't trying to make a point about Maronites' ethnicity, and I really am not interested in doing so. I was trying to show you that by your logic, not mine, you also are discriminating against a group of people, and have an obsession with removing anything related to Arabs.

-It was me who asked for a third opinion, I asked user Demetrios1993 who has proved to be very knowledgeable, if they could provide input, they did. You could've simply taken it to the dispute resolution page, no one told you not to do so. And again, you want me to be punished for not editing x too, I don't have to. The sources that were used with the Lebanese cities did not show continuous occupation or weren't reliable enough. If you had issues with my edits, engage in the discussion on the talk page Whatsupkarren (talk) 00:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@Red Phoenician, I have to say, having briefly looked into some of these, it sure looks like you're throwing stones from inside a glass house. -- asilvering (talk) 20:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

After reading my most recent response could you provide some examples please. Red Phoenician (talk) 20:45, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Glass house indeed. I had a brief interaction with Red Phoenician last year on Lebanon. From what I could see looking at their edits at that time they appeared to be here to push a WP:FRINGEy POV that the Christian Lebanese are not Arabs but, somehow, ancient Phoenicians. See Phoenicianism. I haven't looked at the dispute they have with this particular user but any accusations from them of "systemic bias" takes chutzpah. DeCausa (talk) 21:50, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall this interaction specifically but I assume it was related to the infobox note which was cited by three sources. But yes Lebanon is a diverse country with various ethnicities with some claiming descent from Phoenicians as has been proven genetically, [20] but arguing over self-determination is outside the scope of this dispute. Red Phoenician (talk) 23:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think I remember your liberal use of WP:SYNTH to support your tendentious WP:FRINGE POV-pushing. DeCausa (talk) 07:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Is this relevant? I don’t think tarring a party without a goal of sanctions is fair to do at ANI—bring diffs or stop raising unsupported accusations; it’s derailing. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I have not noticed any significant problematic behavior from Whatsupkarren. On the contrary, I think the problem is Red Phoenician. I have followed Red Phoenician's contributions for years and it is immediately noticeable that many of his contributions on Wikipedia are guided by very strong ideological positions (Phoenicianism and ethno-nationalist ideas). You can see that the user in question makes ethnonationalist comments even here (the idea according to which "Maronites are Syriac not Arab" is indeed WP:POV and WP:FRINGE). I believe that this behavior is irreconcilable with Wikipedia (I am a regular contributor to the Italian Wikipedia and I can assure you that a user with this kind of behavior would have been blocked there years ago). It is a dynamic very similar to that of User:Chris O' Hare, who was finally blocked months ago. --Syphax98 (talk) 10:10, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok so you are admitting you obsessively stalk me. Maronites being Syriac is the official position of the Church and Patriarch, hardly fringe.[21] Editing another Wikipedia doesn’t mean anything. This has just become a dogpile of personal attacks by users who have grievances with me unrelated to the original matter. Red Phoenician (talk) 01:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Devaluing other users' comments as personal attacks and accusing others of stalking you is not a constructive interaction. I'm not stalking you, but it's the nature of your contributions that is raising red flags. I have no grievances against you; I don't even know you as a person. --Syphax98 (talk) 11:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the source you cited, I note that many of these churches are rooted also in Kerala; the Christians of Kerala also have a Syriac identity which is reflected in the liturgy and religious traditions, but no one denies their Malayali identity. The same goes for the Maronites, who have a strong Arab identity, which you are keen to deny (the source does not). Anyway, this has nothing to do with this discussion. --Syphax98 (talk) 11:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Quite. The source says that Maronites are a branch of Syriac Christianity. It says nothing about ethnicity. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This just goes to prove what I said earlier, Red Phoenician keeps misusing sources, adding claims not accurately represented in the sources they use. Whatsupkarren (talk) 13:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Superb Owl edit-warring again

User:Superb Owl is edit-warring at Jill Stein 2024 presidential campaign. They has added contentious material and re-added despite warnings. See [22] and [23] The editor has a history of edit-warring.User:Namiba 17:35, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Namiba, the first editor who deleted that addition did not have a strong opinion about it and expressed that in their comment - I attempted to explain why it was relevant by adding more context. You then reverted the entire thing (which I assumed was because you took issue with the additional explanation not the part that had been there for several weeks), so then I restored the original piece that had been there for some weeks. Now that is seems clearer that you may have taken issue with the entire thing, I have self-reverted. Superb Owl (talk) 17:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Superb Owl, In the second edit diff, you had the edit summary of restoring previous consensus version but I was unable to find an RfC on the talk page. Do you have proof that this was a consensus decided version? Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Cowboygilbert, I thought there was 'implied consensus' since it had been there - there was no RFC Superb Owl (talk) 20:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Consensus is only when you have editors agree upon something, it can't simply be "implied". Striking my comment, thank you for the replies. Don't need any more on the same policy. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:52, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Implied consensus is, more often than not, how Wikipedia works - see WP:IMPLIED.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) Oh yes it can. See WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Consensus can be implicit, but I don't see any evidence this is an implicit consensus version either (e.g. being left in place a couple days); it just seems to be the editor's previously-preferred version. In addition, please see WP:STABLE; reverting to a previous stable/"consensus" version is not an exception to 1RR.

I'll mention that I've had some issues with this user edit-warring over POV in the past. That said, I would not classify their behavior as especially egregious, because the discussion was heavily derailed by another user following me around and casting aspersions about me being a vandal or POV-pusher (which understandably left @Superb Owl feeling pretty hostile/skeptical). After finding a neutral mediator, @Superb Owl was willing to accept the final compromise version, and did not edit-war further over it. I'm also seeing mitigating behaviors in this case—once the topic was brought to ANI, the user self-reverted to their less-preferred version, which I think shows restraint and a good-faith attempt at following the rules.

Given how stringent 1RR is, I'd recommend avoiding formal sanctions as long as the editor voluntarily makes some pledges that keep him from overstepping 1RR in the future. @Superb Owl: would you be willing to commit to avoid reverting on contentious topics without opening a talk page discussion first? – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 20:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Just to make things even clearer, my edit was only in response to Cowboygilbert's statement. I have not looked into the original subject of this report. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing WP:Stable and the contentious topics guidelines - I just read both top to bottom. I did not see any mention of 1RR for all contentious topics (this article did not have that restriction) but can hold myself to a higher standard of caution (like 2RR or 1RR) on contentious topics if that is recommended. Superb Owl (talk) 01:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Ahh, thanks. I misread the policy as applying to all contentious topics, so I thought it was applied here. I think a WP:Don't re-revert pledge would be good. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 17:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I can see a WP:One-revert rule pledge (along the lines of WP:BRD) as being a useful constraint for my editing. A zero-revert pledge, however, seems too extreme given that reverting is sometimes necessary and more efficient, especially on pages with few editors watching them or participating in talk page discussions. Superb Owl (talk) 22:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that's fair. No issues with 1RR. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 23:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

User:CyberIdris

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

The article on "Yukio Mishima" was subject to trolling from multiple IP addresses believed to be the same person, and the administrator recently took action to semi-protect the page. But the exact same trolling has now resumed again, this time by User:CyberIdris, who is likely to be the same person as 45.128.80.181 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log).

I won the FA for my article on Yukio Mishima in the Japanese edition, and I make accurate edits based on reliable academic sources, but this person alters parts of Mishima's history that he does not like, and insists on exaggerating and labeling him as an "ultra-nationalist." I explained to him in User talk:45.128.80.181 that "ultra-nationalist" and "restoring direct imperial rule" are wrong view that is not found in any source, but this person has not listened at all, and now he has repeated the same trolling as User:CyberIdris, at the same time he continues to changing the correct titles of Mishima's works that are the official English titles to wrong.

In the first place, Mishima's final suicide appealed for Japan's independent defense through the amendment of Article 9 of the Constitution. Therefore, the user's edit itself, inserting the phrase "restoring direct imperial rule," is strange, and at the same time, it is an addition that reveals ignorance of Japanese history. This is because even before the war, the Emperor had not direct rule.

This user probably does not have accurate knowledge about Mishima or Japan, in spite of he is comfortable making changes and deleting words from articles that have proper academic sources. I just looked at the edits of this user on other articles, and in other articles about Japan, he also omits sources for no particular reason, calling it "trimming." ([24])

I have explained the same thing to User talk: CyberIdris, but I think there is a high possibility that he will troll again with his incorrect views. I think he is also violating the rule of multiple accounts. In order to preserve proper, high-quality articles, I would like you to put an end to this trolling that ignores sources and is done by people who have no knowledge of Yukio Mishima. Thank you. みしまるもも (talk) 01:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, みしまるもも, as it says all over this page, you need to post a notification to this editor on their User talk page, alerting them to this discussion. Please do so. If you think they are a sockpuppet, you should file a case at WP:SPI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Dear Liz, Thank you for teaching me. みしまるもも (talk) 02:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Not true. First みしまるもも's accusation of trolling is uncivil and unnecessary.

Second @みしまるもも appears to have a emotional connection to this topic and has been treating the article as if he owns it personally. みしまるもも 's userpage suggests a heavy conflict of interest.

From what I can see on the talk page みしまるもも was lectured harshly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yukio_Mishima#Original_research for pushing original research and acting like he is a self-proclaimed "Mishima expert" to oppose all improvements.

He seems to be interested in pushing nationalist viewpoints. CyberIdris (talk) 03:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• I did not do any original research. The other party only asked for secondary sources, and I later provided the secondary sources and resolved the issue. From my perspective, Mr. Ash-Gaar was doing some original research, so I pointed that out to him, and he responded in that way. I have now reconciled with him, and it has nothing to do with your case. And Mr. Ash-Gaar also reverted your edit, and when I corrected a mistake in his edit ("to restore direct imperial rule,"), while explaining the reason, I received a thank you notice.--みしまるもも (talk) 03:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

What usually helps in situation where two editors are locking horns is to get feedback from other editors who are interested in the article. Have you tried talking about your differences on the article talk page, Talk:Yukio Mishima? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:28, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Dear Liz, thank you for mediating. I have explained it in Talk:Yukio Mishima now.

He misguided understanding and alteration of Mishima's final act is clearly vandalism. Besides that, he even change the official English titles of Mishima's works to incorrect ones, and edit to remove "Mishima has been recognized as one of the world's most important literary persons of the 20th century," which I edited based on the academic literature source of Donald Keene. Also, he reverted the notice I posted on his talk page.([25])

みしまるもも (talk) 04:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This sounds frustrating. But it's also a content dispute and ANI handles misconduct. I'm not convinced their edits are vandalism. If discussion on the article talk page doesn't lead to a resolution there are other forms of dispute resolution if CyberIdris is willing to take part in them. But if you have more than suspicions about sockpuppetry, then you might head to SPI. In a complaint there, you will be expected to produce evidence that editors are editing in a similar manner, they are pretty strict about that there. It's not for "fishing". Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

CyberIdris has repeatedly engaged in destructive behavior by replacing basic information based on legitimate sources to his/her original inaccurate research. ([26]) No matter how many times I explain it to this user in the article's note page and elsewhere, he/she has not understood at all, and has continued to force through strange changes and has not stop this exhausting behavior.--みしまるもも (talk) 06:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

みしまるもも personal attacks and threats

みしまるもも (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Personal attacks:

The fact that Mishima committed suicide in an attempt to appeal for the revision (abolition) of Article 9 of the Constitution and to restore the Self-Defense Forces as a national army is elementary and basic knowledge. I really wonder why someone who doesn't know these things would want to get involved in this article.

If you are not familiar with Japan and do not have the insight to distinguish the truthfulness of unreliable online sites, please do not get involved with this article.

You have no knowledge of Mishima, so all you can rely on is this fake information, right? On the contrary, you are the one trying to hide the real information about Mishima

And it's clear that your revision is simply an attempt to destroy the article and hide the truth

I feel like you may have come here to purposely lower the quality of the articles

You have no basic knowledge, and therefore have no right to come here and tell me anything. First of all, why don't you read Henry Scott's book instead of that nonsense site?

First of all, why would someone with only a superficial knowledge of Mishima, without having looked at proper documents for themselves in a library or somewhere similar, get involved in this article? Do you understand what "subversion of the state" means?

I know that people overseas don't know much about Mishima, but you know absolutely nothing.

Threats:

If you do this repeatedly, we will ask you to block us.

I will request that you be blocked.

He continuously tells editors to not contribute, or says they are trying to "hide the truth", and he keeps suggesting that "foreign" people are not smart[27]. みしまるもも appears to have some kind of conflict of interest over Yukio Mishima. He has gotten a lot of past warnings for nationalist editing[28][29][30]CyberIdris (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP on a Personal attack-filled spree on US election related articles

68.196.5.168 has been attempting to POV-push since their first edit, with personal attacks mixed in for good measure from the second edit [31]. I could give a detailed analysis but I think edits and edit summaries such as these [32] [33][34] do the music themselves. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 18:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

While their comments are sharply worded, 2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden is an article that draws editors with strong opinions. The only personal attack directed towards a specific editor is a CIR question and that is a charge that gets raised on ANI all of the time so I'm unsure about sanctioning an editor for raising that. I think we have to watch their comments about Judaism but right now it looks like it's a comment about political support, not antisemitism. They are clearly anti-conservative but we don't block editors based on their political stance but based on their behavior. That's my take, other editors might see this differently. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Certainly the point about Judaism was phrased unclearly. To clarify, the point was simply that there is no logical connection between the statements A) "Trump enjoys more support among Orthodox Jews than Harris" therefore (somehow) B)"Trump is not a fascist." A does not imply B; A is not even in any way evidence for B. And even if it somehow was, that would be synth since the source cited makes no mention of fascism. the bit about Nazism was just my idle speculation as to why that editor fallaciously suggested that Trump's support in the Orthodox community was at all germane to the question of whether Trump is a fascist, but this statement was unclear and unnecessary to my overall point. As for the suggestion that there were competence concerns about a particular editor, I just looked and that user was banned as "Not here" so it would appear others shared my assessment. The deletion discussion statement was surely a bit hyperbolic but I was trying to indicate just how obvious it was that this topic is notable. There is a mountain of academic literature on it, as well as other similar neo-fascist and illiberal pseudo-democrats around the globe, most of whom Trump regularly fetes with praise and who cheered his return to power. I do maintain that there was no reason to have that deletion discussion since no one ever raised any challenges to the notability of the topic. The user who sent me here (and somewhat rudely did not provide a link to the discussion leaving me to find this topic) appears to just be upset that he lost the debate. Chin up, mate. You can get through this. 68.196.5.168 (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

"I would like to raise WP:Competenceisrequired concerns about Mr. Britton. The above sentences clearly illustrates the basic competences needed to edit articles on political topics are missing here."

"Please clear out the trolls, like both of the above editors, especially the nutter going on about "bolshie elitists who run this site."

"No offense, but your (Fantastic Mr. Fox) position is palpably absurd.

"Speedy Keep and I propose that all “delete” votes take a 7 day ban to read and reflect upon WP: Competenceisrequired"

This IP ran into the thick of Meta Wikipedia disputes and quickly starts ordering users against him to be banned. He is hardly here to set to provide a extra set of contributional helping hands? Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 21:01, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to second this as I have noticed it quite a bit and it is becoming an increasing issue Artem P75 (talk) 22:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I am making comments on the content of articles and making substantive points about article content. You, on the other hand, appear to be engaged in some sort of strange personal vendetta. Just let it go, man.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.5.168 (talk • contribs)

"You, on the other hand, appear to be engaged in some sort of strange personal vendetta. Just let it go, man."

In this very comment, you implicitly cast WP:ASPERSIONS. Content is not an issue. WP:PA's are. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 21:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you know WP:Boomerang friend? You've sure been blocked an awful lot of times for engaging in similar WP:Battleground behavior as you are right now to be so confident in calling in the administration. Has that typically gone well for you in the past?68.196.5.168 (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

"You've sure been blocked an awful lot of times for engaging in similar WP:Battleground behavior as you are right now to be so confident in calling in the administration."

This falls under WP:ATONED. I don't think I need to elaborate much more here on IP's behaviour.

If the IP wishes to be a positive member of Wikipedia, I suggest he seriously reconsider his attitude on this platform. I will and have had disagreements with members, but we move on and work positively to find a solution because we assume each others intentions are WP:GOODFAITH. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 21:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, we should certainly all move on. Cheers. 68.196.5.168 (talk) 23:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

68.196.5.168, do you agree then to speak with more civility towards other editors, especially those you disagree with, and stop casting aspersions? This is necessary if you wish to continue to edit here. Behavior that is common on most discussion boards is not tolerated here. You need to treat your fellow editors with respect and they, to you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Bolshoi elitist who runs Wikipedia

Fine, i’ll do as you suggest. But a couple of things. Please permanently ban that editor who was complaining of “the bolshie elitists who run Wikipedia” and now openly declared himself an anti-semite on the article talk page. If you don't want me to have to get down in the mud, please clean up your own trash. And Mr. fox should really reflect upon his own behavior towards other editors, which seems to have undergone no improvement since his previous many blocks for battleground behavior and other behavioral issues, despite his claims to atonement. I shall do my best to not be baited by conduct like his again. 68.196.5.168 (talk) 12:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You claim here "I'll do as you suggest" then immediately ask for someone to be permanently banned (the highest punishment possible), say you will only stop if Wikipedia 'cleans (its) own trash' (very WP:RGW-esque), and then subsequent fire off some more unbacked WP:ASPERSIONS about behaviour from a block that nobody has ever brought up or mentioned since.

IP, nobody 'baited' you into going into discussions with WP:BADFAITH. I am a person who enjoys giving rope to editors who at least try to communicate collaboratively. I haven't seen you once make a comment without attempting to aggressively POV-push, mention 'x should be punished for y' or straight up refuse to acknowledge any point the person they are replying is making. To me, the IP appears to be WP:NOTHERE with no real signs him changing his standpoint. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 16:38, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

now openly declared himself an anti-semite on the article talk page

This direct personal attack deserves an immediate block. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

So you're stumping for the user who called themselves an anti-semite to not be permanently banned ? (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Donald_Trump_and_fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1256086637)("I am 100% antisemitic and definitely considered my options for voting...Unified Reich you say? Expell blood poisoners? Sign me the fuck up")Reconsider that view, friend. Try to take the time to understand what is going on before commenting. I didn't call anyone an anti-semite, that user quite literally boasted of being one. Considering that you are engaged in the very behavior you falsely accuse me of, some self-reflection might be in order on your part. See also WP:Boomerang might be useful for you to consider. Evidently you're very upset about something I said (though I can't see why) but I think everyone would prefer if you just moved on. I'm very sorry if I upset you greatly when I called your position "palpably absurd" in that deletion debate where no one agreed with you. Let it go. 68.196.5.168 21:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

68.196.5.168 is not making a personal attack; please see the edit history of: 124.169.133.156, who is in fact blocked now. Largely Legible Layman (talk) 21:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the address is blocked. We do not block IP addresses permanently for the reason that they can be reassigned to anyone at any time. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Since you did not provide any context, I could only assume you were attacking Fantastic Mr. Fox. Rather than condescending with Try to take the time to understand what is going on before commentin, you need to be very careful to provide diffs when making accusations against other editors.

In fact, the rest of your comment appears to be aimed at Fox, since I have never interacted with you before this moment, yet you're claiming you called [my] position "palpably absurd" in that deletion debate. You are so locked in attack-mode that you're not paying attention to whom you're speaking. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

It was not directed at you. In fact, I had no idea you existed until just now. But thank you very much for your contributions. 68.196.5.168 (talk) 21:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

MPN 1994 disruptive behaviour

MPN 1994 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has a long history of poor behaviour and a fairly long block log. On 3 November, I issued a final warning to this user due to their repeated disruptive behaviour on 1936–37 Maltese FA Trophy, 1937–38 Maltese FA Trophy and 1938–39 Maltese FA Trophy - essentially reverting the AfD closure without permission. I reported this to WP:RPP in the hope of getting the redirects protected but was told to take it here instead. They have also been disruptive while logged out - see here and here. The latter example was after I had already issued a final warning on MPN's talk page. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

It's worth noting @MPN 1994 has a habit of removing warnings from there talk page [35], which has removed most of the Christmas shopping list of notifications and warnings Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 19:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Without assessing the validity of this complaint, I'll just point out that editors are allowed to remove warnings from their User talk page and that alone is not an action that would call for sanctions. It's pretty common behavior. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

And to add onto @Liz has pointed out: while it's important to assume good faith about removing user warnings, taking it as a neutral sign that they've read it, it's also okay (and sometimes important!) to point out when someone has done this, like @Fantastic Mr. Fox has done. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 04:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@MPN 1994: please can you respond to my complaint? User:Liz asked you to respond 2 days ago and you've carried on editing since. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I Got the Information From the Malta Football Association from the Headquarters. They don't have any History of Knockout Rounds on the Internet. But they gave me an Excel Sheet. So I was giving them the teams how they Qualify and who they Played. But there are Some People didn't Understand me what I was Doing. And I Did Not Logged Out and make it Back. MPN 1994 (talk) 16:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

MPN 1994 I commend your commitment to making the article, but are you Wikipedia aware of policies around original research? Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 17:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Listen what I do I am Not Making any Fake news. I know all about Maltese Football. And What I Do I am Saying the Truth. MPN 1994 (talk) 19:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Click the words "original research" in Fantastic Mr. Fox's message and read that policy. City of Silver 19:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

MPN 1994 you still haven't explained why you kept reverting the AfD closure on those Maltese FA Trophy articles, even after being told to stop. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Because Every time I Always Write Either Drafted or Delete MPN 1994 (talk) 16:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

This happens because the articles are created without any sources at all, so are not suitable to remain in main space. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:48, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Persistent edit warring in contentious topic

UrbanVillager (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Persistent POV edits, removes critical content, adds misleading info to the article.

[36] removes producer association with RT Documentary. Removes Historian Ian Garner noted that Trofimova's claim that she did not have official permission to film the soldiers "hardly stands up to scrutiny in a country where independent journalism simply does not exist" and that Trofimova absolved the soldiers of moral responsibility for war crimes such as rape, looting, and murder by presenting them as "blind kittens", and "helpless to intervene". Garner termed this an "alarming reiteration of the 'just following orders' narratives" that surrounded the Holocaust.[37]

[38] again after being reverted.

[39] again partial revert after being reverted.

[40] adds unsourced "five-minute standing ovation", "she "hadn't watched the "Russians at War" yet" when she was making these comments" .
Removes sourced content from Garner, again.
Adds unsourced The Ukrainian government sent a protest letter to the 81st Venice International Film Festival in August 2024, before the film's trailer (September 4) or the film itself (September 5) had been released.
Removes sourced The film sparked backlash from some regional experts, Canadian politicians and the Ukrainian-Canadian community, who characterized it as "Russian propaganda."
Adds Within the film industry, Trofimova's film was recognized as an original, professionally done and gutsy anti-war documentary.[10][9][11][6][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19] with the first source Ukrainians assail Russian war film at Venice fest saying This film may mislead you into believing that it is an anti-war film, one that questions the current regime in Russia," Darya Bassel, a producer who watched the film at the festival, said in a Facebook post. "However, what I witnessed is a prime example of pure Russian propaganda," she said .

[41] again removes Garner.
Removes DW noted that the film is controversial. The producers say the film is anti-war. Critics criticize it for sympathizing the invading soldiers and for not informing the viewer on the Russian war crimes. On the other side, "Trofimova's film is considered one of the few documentary video evidence from the Russian side of the front." and replaces it with Germany's DW News: "Trofimova's film is considered one of the few documentary video evidence from the Russian side of the front." referenced to Канал TVO не покажет спорный фильм "Русские на войне" – DW – 11.09.2024 which says The filmmakers say they perceive it as an anti-war statement. Critics believe that this is an attempt to "humanize" Russian soldiers and express sympathy for them. According to opponents, the film does not show the massive destruction in Ukraine and the war crimes of the Russian army.
Adds As the press noted, none of the participants of this protest saw the film with 7 references, with only one saying the people who managed to get this film cancelled almost certainly haven’t seen it and others do not support it.

[42] adds Without permission from the Ministry of Defense as a fact, while it was challenged by Garner and others. Basically, returns their previous reverted version [43] while keeping 2 amendments (Garner and controversial mention).

[44] another tendentious edit, adds "Anti-war content" and "Footage rarity" sections which fills with whatever they like. Puts most critical assessments from "Critical response" into "Controversy and political pressure" and "Protests" sections, converts "Critical response" into "Reception" which mostly fills with praise.

[45] returns their reverted version
[46] again, and [47] again.

In talk, do not attends the arguments raised, do not agrees to adhere to WP:CONS - Talk:Russians at War#WP:OWN , makes accusations of vandalism and personal appeals.

I'm tired of being the only one to oppose the editor and am asking others to step in. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

If it's just the two of you, then WP:3O is the way to go. ANI only deals with behavioral violations, not editing disputes. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Notably, User:Manyareasexpert consistently reverts the updated version of Russians at War that has 88 sources to the very outdated and not well-structured old version with 47 sources. I observe back and forth reversion war between this editor (who has extensive history editing in pages related to Ukraine, in violation of WP:RUSUKR) and the editor User:UrbanVillager who consistently posts the updated version. I ask other, neutral senior editors to limit the ability of User:Manyareasexpert to edit this page due their violation of WP:RUSUKR that is evident from the history of their edits. Complexity1 (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Reporting harassment by sockpuppet account

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

A sockpuppet is constantly putting unsourced content on the wikipage Uddhav Thackeray, After removing his unsourced edits, he is harassing me on my talk page. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/117.228.176.138 )

Regards Io5678 (talk) 21:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

How do you know this user is a sockpuppet? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

His edits are politically motivated as he has harassed me in talk page.They can be had in the history of my talk page. Io5678 (talk) 22:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Io5678, the "history of your talk page"? There are only 7 edits to your user talk page you've only been an editor for 4 days now. That's not a long history. Have you used other accounts before this one? It's highly unusual for a 4 day old account to bring a complaint to ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

He puts the same unsourced stuff again.and his IP address are similar Io5678 (talk) 22:01, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think what Ivanvector was getting at is that IPs can change without any intent or even knowledge of the person making the edits. That is not sockpuppetry unless they are evading a block. This looks like an extremely minor content dispute that does not require admin intervention at this time. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

He harassed me in the talk page with racial comments,he seems to be a politicaly motivated troll. Io5678 (talk) 22:15, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

He has created three accounts in a span of four to five days. Also,each of his account has only one edit. Io5678 (talk) 22:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

If you could provide the names of those accounts that would be helpful. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 01:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean the material that admin Bbb23 restored? It appears to be sourced. The IPs message on your talk page may not be the politest but it doesn't rise to harassment. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 05:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

This editor also went to three different editors' user talk pages asking for those edits to be revision deleted which seems like an odd thing for a 4 day old account to know about. They have also been edit-warring and justifying by saying the other editors were sockpuppets (with no evidence). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I blocked them. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 07:13, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, the sockpuppet account against which Io5678 is complaining is not sockpuppet account, but since I don't have wikipedia account, & I do directly edit page, my IP address (which fluctuates as per net service provider) is displayed. I haven't added anything new but only restored information with proper references which other two admins Bbb23, Yoshi24517 also agreed & restored, which Io5678 removed withouth proper justification. In his talk page I only mentioned him as andhbhakt which means blind follower of political party or ideology & I live in province where uddhav thackeray was governing, so I know about his popularity. & by crying harassment he has vindicated me. Anyways, the article is properly fixed at this moment & I thank Bbb23, Yoshi24517, CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq for putting proper inputs as well as restraining Io5678 from making unconstructive edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.233.118.11 (talk) 10:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I actually asked for their evidence of sockpuppetry because "my political opponent must be a sockpuppet" is a thing that sockpuppets say, pretty reliably, especially with Indian politics. And, well, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mlnx. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

That's True. I should also thank you for being neutral & helping me in putting right information. 117.233.92.161 (talk) 08:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

User blocked, closing discussion. Aydoh8^[contribs] 23:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New editor (Zachapertio) may need an admin warning or a block to cool down

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Zachapertio (talk · contribs) is an account that has been created in August (now at 300+ edits) and their second and third edits were already problematic (edit warring). They came to my attention just now, as few days ago they violated talk page guidelines reverting, with no rationale a perfectly fine response (or a set of three, to be exact) to a warning that my student received few days ago on their talk page.

I assumed it is an innocent mistake by a new user, so I reverted them with an edit summary and left them a friendly but firm warning message to be careful on their talk.

In response, they reverted my warning removing it from their talk page with no edit summary, reverted my revert removing my students responses again, and left me a "final warning for vandalism message".

I don't have time to review their edits in more detail, but I see in September they got a warning from @Robert McClenon, which they promptly deleted as well.

I think that editor is WP:NOTHERE, and is playing as an admin or moderator with way too little experience and wrong attitude (see their numerous edits at userspace talk, with many warnings and such). I am not sure if a warning to refrain from such actions until they get much more experience will be enough, a shorter or longer admin or community block for them to cool down (for few weeks of years...) might be warranted. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 01:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Nothing else they are doing seems particularly weird, but I agree that the user talk reverts make no sense. They are free to remove whatever they want from their own talk page, but not someone else's. And issuing a vandalism warning to you is clearly just plain wrong. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 01:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at some of their non-template messages, it doesn't seem like their English skills are very strong. That doesn't have any influence those strange user talk page edits but I thought I'd mention it. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I know that consensus can change, but I know there was a consensus years ago that cool-down blocks backfired too often to be useful. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 04:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Pretty sure cool-down blocks have never been a thing the community supports. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 05:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if i got blocked? Zach (talk to me) 07:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Since you can post here, User:Zachapertio, you are not blocked. But you should read over the comemnts here and provide an explanation for any questions about your editing that have arisen. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

And an apology to me and my student would be nice. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 00:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree. This is a misuse of Twinkle and their use of this tool should be revoked (I would have revoked it by myself if I find the right page to do so). OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 01:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I do not think Twinkle is something we can control access to - Isn't it built into the "Gadgets" section of the site now? ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 01:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Yep, it's been that way for some time. And although I agree the issued warning was not appropiate, they've been told that via a warning on their talk page and have not edited in three days so I'm not really seeing any sanctions forthcomeing from this thread. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 02:27, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I must be thinking about WP:AWB, which can be revoked for misuse by removing their name from this page. Perhaps Twinkle should add this feature? @Novem Linguae: is there a way to remove Twinkle access for miuse? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Not currently. There's no allowlist or denylist for Twinkle. It simply checks for autoconfirmed. –Novem Linguae (talk) 16:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

There is my username Rahio1234 got blocked for disrupted edit. Zach (talk to me) 07:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and indeffed just now for WP:CIR, WP:DE, and admitting to being WP:SOCK of blocked user Rahio1234. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:07, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:GreatLeader1945

GreatLeader1945 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user is repeatedly reverting edits claiming to be reverting vandalism when the edits are not vandalism. Here they claim to "rvv" to restore their own edit that was reverted for being unsourced (as well as factually false), same here, here, here and here. I have previously warned them against making personal attacks in their edit summaries by claiming constructive edits are vandalism, they have since continued doing so. nableezy - 20:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

 Blocked x 72 hrs for disruptive editing. They have a wall of warnings on their talk page and a previous block for edit warring. That's enough. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Darn it, @Ad Orientem, I was just about to block EvergreenFir (talk) 00:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Because tone is unclear, let me specify that my comment was mock/fake outrage EvergreenFir (talk) 00:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I got it don't worry. Good to know we are of the same mind on the matter at hand. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

That userpage is beyond disruptive, and the username screams "right-wing troll". They should be indeffed. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 06:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

See also their WP:NOTFORUM antics on Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine, would also recommend indef to save inevitable future administrator time. TylerBurden (talk) 14:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I considered topic banning them from Arab/Israel related pages but decided a block was just easier. I have subsequently posted a note warning them to tread carefully going forward as this is likely to be their last block with an expiration date. I see that they have since blanked their talk page. While that is within their right, it is not encouraging. I definitely consider them to be on very thin ice. If there is any further issue just drop me a line. Assuming it's not trivial or a misunderstanding, an indefinite block is likely the next step. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Their user page has all the signs of a troll, but I'll defer to the blocking admin and give the editor some rope. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 10:54, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Matthewjaredgarza2010 doing complex actions incorrectly, ignoring advice

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been here 2 weeks and has been creating lots of busywork for others with incorrect CSDs, redirects, and noticeboard reports. A few examples (many more in edit history):

• Reporting user for vandalism after user warned Matthewjaredgarza2010 Special:Permalink/1256210298#Invalid/incomplete WP:AIV submission
• Reporting CSDs incorrectly: Special:Diff/1256185376 Special:Diff/1256161563 Special:Diff/1256091078
• Odd page creations: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RTINGS.com
• Incorrect, now deleted disambig pages include: HEB Park (disambiguation) UTRGV Football Stadium (disambiguation) Vackar Stadium (disambiguation)

See talk page for all the efforts (including mine) to counsel user. See Special:Permalink/1256206310#November 2024 for one of my efforts and user's dismissive reply.

More details on request, but a quick perusal of the user talk page gives a good picture. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 20:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to add Matthewjaredgarza2010's false accusation against another editor by alleging vandalism. The editor that Matthewjaredgarza2010 accused, LefterDalaka, at the time had never been warned & had been reverted twice in 223 edits. Presumably Matthewjaredgarza2010's action was in a response to an advisory note that LefterDalaka had left on Matthewjaredgarza2010's talk page. Peaceray (talk) 20:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I closed that AFD as they didn't boither to state any sort of reason. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

And upon examining this further I've p-blocked them from article space unless and until they make a satisfactory response here. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 21:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Just Step Sideways FYI They have replied, except it's on their Talk page. Blue-Sonnet (talk) 01:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I've asked them to respond here. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 02:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to say that I just did not know I was vandalizing! Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk) 03:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I was nominating articles for deletion, and speedy deletion, creating articles, etc. Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk) 16:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. Those are complex actions, and you did them incorrectly, repeatedly, and ignored all advice as to changing your actions. You are not competent to have any editing privileges here. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Just Step Sideways I would like to say that I just did not know I was vandalizing! Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk) 03:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Two more afds that can be speedy closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gabriel Leyva Velázquez and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ladochori. Lavalizard101 (talk) 22:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I have closed those as well. Skynxnex (talk) 22:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

In light of the thread Matthew started below, I'd argue for an indefinite block on the grounds of lack of competence. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 17:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I concur. This user fails the WP:CIR check. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Given the below continuation demonstrating WP:CIR failure, I'd say we can indef this one. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the edits just from today, see plenty of fuel for WP:CIR. Copyvio, putting deletion tags on user talk pages (without any need for any text deletion) and the whole Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Bkonrad section. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 18:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and upped the block to a sitewide indef block. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 20:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Bkonrad

{{db-reason-notice}} I would like to report @Bkonrad for incorrectly removing UTB-TSC from University of Texas at Brownsville. I just don’t want people to get confused with Texas Southmost College. It got removed again by @UtherSRG, and it is an ambiguous term. Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a content dispute and doesn't belong at ANI. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 15:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a content dispute. You are blocked from the article namespace for failing to competently edit, with the blocking admin noting you need to come to ANI to demonstrate this ability. You are currently doing the opposite. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I did before I did this. Matthewjaredgarza2010 (talk) 16:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

NO you are not. For starters why the hell are you placing an empty deletion template to ANI? Lavalizard101 (talk) 16:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Matthewjaredgarza2010 doing complex actions incorrectly, ignoring advice. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 16:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I have moved this to be a subsection of the related discussion. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Whitewashing and apparent legal threats from User:Billygoats1234

User:Billygoats1234 has been removing sourced information about wage theft claims from Timothy Hollingsworth and has now posted what appears to be a legal threat in the edit summary of this edit. They also removed the COI notice I posted on their talk page without response (I know editors are allowed to remove notices from their talk pages, but this does not inspire confidence). :Jay8g [V•T•E] 20:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

They've also been adding promotional content in place of the critical material, adding to the likelihood of an undeclared COI: "In 2021, he co-founded the company Chain with actor BJ Novak which re-creates classic chain dishes at pop up events and festivals." AntiDionysius (talk) 20:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Their edits would seem to indicate a COI. As this seems limited to a single article I've fully protected the page while this discussion is ongoing. The edit sumarry dances up to a legal threat but doesn't quite make one, but I would advise Billygoats1234 that the word they are looking for is libel, not "liable". Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 21:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Homonyms come for us all eventually. Thank you. They've just appeared on my talk page suddenly with a desire to discuss the issue, so it can hopefully be hashed out. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

This is not COI this is information that was originally published that someone deleted without any explanation. Billygoats1234 (talk) 21:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Billygoats1234: If the information you're disputing remains in that article, can Wikipedia or any of its editors expect legal sanctions against them by Hollingsworth or anyone associated with him? City of Silver 22:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I will go ahead and email Wikipedia directly regarding this matter. Billygoats1234 (talk) 22:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

If you think it is actionable libel, you should follow the procedure at WP:RFO to ask for removal. If instead you are wanting to talk to the back office, they almost certainly will not take any sort of action here. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

It is also arguable that we are having the wrong discussion here. Rather than accusations of libel I think it could be reasonably argued that it's a bit WP:UNDUE for one of all of five paragraphs in the article to be about this topic. The actual source used to support this paragraph reads, in part "Hollingsworth operated the restaurant alongside former Wolfgang Puck catering CEO Carl Schuster; it opened with investment from the Broad, billionaire Eli Broad’s landmark art museum located next door." Seems entirely possible that the chef is not entirely to blame for what happened. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

The paragraph could be cut down quite a bit. I think the issue merits a mention of some kind, given both the source and the Wiki article give Hollingsworth credit for co-founding and co-managing the restaurant. But as you say, the existing bit may be UNDUE particularly given the length of the overall article. AntiDionysius (talk) 23:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

And the paragraph should be updated as well; workers finally get paychecks, but some turn up short. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The phrase "Hollingsworth was accused of felony wage theft by fifteen former employees of Otium". That implies an investigation exists, but there's none. This has to be reworded as well. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 02:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the word "felony" is not used in the source, it's OR. Isaidnoway (talk) 10:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

We may want to move this more detailed discussion of wording to the talk page, but it sounds like consensus on a reworked paragraph (that removes the OR, adds the updated news and is careful not to make an undue issue of the whole thing) shouldn't be too hard to achieve? AntiDionysius (talk) 14:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

It’s troubling to me that you restored this information, to a BLP, without actually verifying the source. I confirmed that the word felony isn’t even used in the article. That’s not ok. 173.22.12.194 (talk) 13:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Byoblu page deletion

Byoblu is a news organization established in Italy, owned by Media Pluralisti Europei SPA, broadcasting on national tv channel 262, sky 816 and satellite 462, plus national DAB radio, since 2021.

I am the founder and CEO. I write to let you know that somedbody deleted our Wikipedia page (Byoblu), claiming that it was promotional. It wasn't. Byoblu is well known by 25% of italian citizens, and seen on a regulary base by the 9,7% of them. We have an EuroMedia Research institute paper that shows it.

So Byoblu deserves to be a part of Wikipedia and shouldn't be deleted by anyone with false claims.

Thank you for your attention and for investigating the subject.

Claudio Messora — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.116.184.184 (talk)

It was speedy deleted as unambigious advertising. Speedy deletions are challenged at deletion review. 331dot (talk) 10:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Nothing in your edit says anything about whether the page was promotional, the reason why it was deleted. It is possible for articles about extremely important and well-known things to be deleted as promotional. As a non-admin I cannot see the deleted article, but it seems that there are two possible cources of action:

1. Contact the deleting admin at User talk:Deb to see if you can have this restored, and if you can't come to an agreement go to deletion review.
2. Create a new non-promotional article at Draft:Byoblu and submit it for copying to mainspace.

Phil Bridger (talk) 11:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at it I cannot see the process around its deletion. It was deleted as spam, but was a well referenced article and not unambiguous, and had lasted for over a year. link if you are an admin Secretlondon (talk) 16:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Secretlondon: This was likely related to the now globally locked (as LTA) account 1.600.000ByoBlu, which Deb blocked at the time, which has ByoBlu in the name and was spamming/advertising about said company, including linking the article.

Curiously said account was blocked as LTA/HOY (the spammer with the long and themed names) on a different wiki. – 2804:F14:80F8:8501:6876:CA6F:FEE3:5F9B (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hindu News

Ther are legal and physical threats over at RSn being made (apparently) by representatives of Hindu News [[48]], but they have a fluctuating IP, so is there anything we can do to stop this? Slatersteven (talk) 13:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes please, multiple clear NLT violations. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

These are the IPs that have been used in the discussion: Special:Contributions/47.31.153.39 Special:Contributions/47.31.133.164 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/47.31.153.221. The last one is blocked but needs TPA pulled, too. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

And this [[49]] means it needs to be a perinant block, as this is a direct threat to target WMF staff. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This is not the first time this organisation and it's IPs have been brought to ANI see also [50] [51] - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

And it needs to be applied to every involved IP. Slatersteven (talk) 13:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think perinant is a word, which is a shame because it should be. EEng 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Considering the diff provided by Slatersteven, I blocked the IPs that were clearly identified as employees of the company due to legal threats. I don't think TPA is needed right now, though. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 14:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There was no LEGAL THREAT. It is a clear and direct caution that aggrieved Hindu Raksha Dal cadres, acting on their own and individually, may physically discipline WMF employees and users in India if there is any abuse or disrespect to our HINDU organization/s and project/s on your web portals - as they have done in the past. WMF Legal and WMF CEO is very well aware of considering the past LITIGATION between our organisations, DMCAs, Office Actions etc. Anyway, what we say here is previously publlshed by us on the ICANN website [52] and can be verified from WMF and also from WP:/LTA. The LTA will show we have unlimited supply of IP addresses, so blocking is a waste of both our times. We suggest you get WMF to impose a GLOBAL BAN on us if they dare. Have a nice day.

Somebody responsible should report this discussion to WIKIMEDIA EMERGENCY email ID also. 47.31.183.210 (talk) 14:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Noting that there also appears to be a threat of physical assault on WMF employees there. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, but it's not like anything they say at [53] is crazy or anything. Stuff like ...

IAC says the present UDRP is grossly biased in favor of trademark holders. The domain name holders are subjected to RDNH akin to the Jews of Europe being eliminated in Auschwitz gas chambers. IAC demands a DENAZIFICATION of ICANN and the UDRP along with its NAZI collaborators like WIPO. It seems WIPO selects their panelists for their stupidity and for strict obedience to follow WIPO's self created gas chamber operation rules. It is no coincidence that WIPO is located in Switzerland where the bulk of the Nazi Gold was stored. IAC shall list out a few of WIPO's tricks to RDNH IAC's domain.

... make perfect sense to me. EEng 14:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Certainly wasn't on my bingo card for today. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

They make extensive use of legal threats directed at individual editors, the WMF, and the Wikimedia India chapter; they also engage in serious harassment, both on- and off-wiki. Whack-a-mole is so tedious, lets smash a few pumpkins instead. 47.31.148.206 (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This may need escalation to a global ban, and maybe more as they are making direct theats, and an outright threat to sock. Slatersteven (talk) 14:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The IP's references to IAC suggest a relation to Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/India Against Corruption sock-meatfarm. MrOllie (talk) 15:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. That is correct. I provided the tq to assist you. HINDUNEWS.STREAM is a property of the Hindustan Republican Army (check its Whois). IAC is an affiliate of HRA. The brand name IAC is owned by HRA. The Hindu Raksha Dal and Hindu Rashtra Dal are armed military wings of HRA to protect peaceful/defenceless Hindu religionists in India. Let's have a civilised conversation and ignore the trolls.47.31.162.201 (talk) 15:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

If you want a civilised discussion, stop making threats. And stop wp:socking wait till you block expires and come back without the attitude. Slatersteven (talk) 15:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hindustan Socialist Republican Association? So it very much will not be an RS. Slatersteven (talk) 15:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Coming off of your threat to have your stormtroopers assault WMF staff and Wikipedia users if WP doesn't do your bidding, I'd say that civilized discussion has up and left the building. Count me very much in favor of a range block wide enough to chop these IPs down. Ravenswing 21:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Soooo did anyone actually contated WMD about the threats of violence? --Trade (talk) 17:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 18:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Blaxstocatamazon: I'm not sure who you're replying to with this message but please read WP:NOTFORUM. This website's discussion boards aren't meant to be used to list a ton of controversial claims that, if they're not sourced, will never be added to any article. City of Silver 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

While WP:BLPCRIME does not apply here, I have redacted the frankly explosive claims made by Blaxstocatamazon above on the grounds that the accusations made, with no evidence presented, are wholly inapproriate regardless of what the subject is, and because the edit itself implicates multiple CTops. IP editor: Anything said specifically to attempt to intimidate other editors into compliance is generally grounds for a block (if not for it being a legal threat, then because you are attempting to force article content). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 18:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Did anyone besides EEngs read through the link EEngs provided? The comments are pure insanity. It talks about assassination, for God's sake. For editing an encyclopedia? This goes beyond legal threats. I'm surprised that there was no response from ICANN as it was posted on their website. To me, it matters whether IAC is an actual organization or just the rantings of one crazy, zealous person. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• This was an earlier warning about this group, Hindu Raksha Dal. Hard to know how much is real and how much is exaggeration to attempt to intimidate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I tried to tell earlier but got deleted. (Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 11:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

In mitigation, they're nice to bovines. EEng 13:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Nice storyline. But it's clear that you are related to this LTA in some way as noted before on your talkpage by me long ago [54]. - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The medical NGO I advice sometimes uses their assistance in certain places of India to operate safely, as also their networks in goverment when needed for advocacy or governmetal action. eg like 2024 Kolkata rape/murder. So something about their storyline is known. Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 15:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

You were essentially repeating same claims about filing a report with the national task force for doctor safety/Supreme court[55] as the IPs of hindu rashtra dal did on the talkpage of Kolkata rape incident. [56][57][58] Making legal threats on the same page also led to your block.[59] I have no doubts that you are related to them in some way, given how the first thing you did after getting unblocked is comment in this thread. - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Col. Rajendra Singh Dalvi [1][2] who claims to be secular and liberal - The links you cited all points to the opposite of what you wrote, are you trolling? - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Aaaaaand I've redacted the new claims for the same reason I redacted the old, plus a dash of blatant BLP violations. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 20:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The only partially veiled threats of violence are among the most alarming things I've ever seen on Wikipedia. Simonm223 (talk) 21:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Holy shit... Tavantius (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't worry -- it's really just these guys [60]. EEng 22:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll just mention this related ANI discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#SumoAvocado is seeking to intimidate a long term admin. The editor who came to my user talk page asked me not just to remove this discussion (and other discussions of Hindu News) but to revision delete all edits of editors who commented here. That account has been blocked. But I have the feeling that they will be back. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

ThornlessCookieReal

"Hope you get hit by a bus!" is not an appropriate thing to say to other users. --Trade (talk) 15:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I've removed it and blocked the account which added it. If anyone wants to do more, you can have my confirmation that it was a sock of the page's owner. Otherwise, I leave them on notice. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 15:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zzuuzz: To confirm the narrative, Blablabla66 was a sock created by ThornlessCookieReal to tell another editor to get hit by a bus? Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 15:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't Thornless be blocked as well then? Feels a bit counterproductive otherwise Trade (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Correct, you did not misread me. I do have a habit of warning users though. One was issued here. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 15:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You never issued any warning to Thornless against socking or making personal attacks in the future tho Trade (talk) 15:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

If they didn't get the message I sent, and/or followed the link to this thread, then I'll be the first to block them (if no one else gets there first). -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 16:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You sent him an email? Trade (talk) 16:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Opinions will differ, but I suspect you underestimate the effect of an admin suddenly turning up at a page you might think you own, blocking a user, removing a threat, and casually uttering a single word (not to mention this thread). That's about all I have to say. I refer everyone back to my first comment here. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 16:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, i'll leave this to rest unless others wish to continue the discussion Trade (talk) 16:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks like ThornlessCookieReal has blanked their user talk page so they definitely have seen the warnings. I guess we are extending some ROPE here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Revoke talk page access for FreeRobuxOnMyProfile

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

FreeRobuxOnMyProfile (talk · contribs · count) was blocked for spam. They later made this edit to make it look like their unblock request was accepted. The editor is clearly acting in bad faith. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Persistent disruption by Osasnova

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Osasnova (talk · contribs · count) has been engaged in persistent disruption primarily at Ada and Abere. They have been edit warring and accusing editors who revert their edits of vandalism. They are unwilling to listen to other editors and have disruptively moved their own version of the article to mainspace. Based on behavior, I believe this may be a sock account and have opened an SPI on this account and one other. But at this point the disruption has risen to a level that more immediate action is needed. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

What are you even talking about 🤦🤦🤦🤦 they hijacked our page and I decided to create another one Osasnova (talk) 20:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

They have also added copyvio to the main article twice, and also to their "version" (which has now been moved into a userspace location and is tagged for U2...). Two of the copyvios were added after they were issued a warning for copyvio. They also came off of an editwarring block less than three hours ago, and have been warned for the same conduct since. Giraffer (talk) 20:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Sock blocked by Fathoms Below. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There seems to be some copyvios in the article's history that I've been attempting to clean up. Could another admin please check to make sure that I revedeled everything appropriately? Fathoms Below (talk) 20:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Pek continuing to mass create poor-quality stubs after ban expiry

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

User:Pek agreed to a voluntary six month ban from creating new articles in August 2023 as a result of this discussion: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1136#User:Pek repeatedly creating poor quality stubs. When the ban expired, they returned to the practice of creating extremely short, poorly sourced, and questionably notable articles. This has continued despite continued warnings from multiple editors (April 2024, May 2024).

Looking through the pages they have created since the ban expired in February, and excluding redirects (although there seem to be some issues with implausible redirects as well), they have created:

25 articles, nine of which have been deleted/redirected/tagged for notability or sourcing problems

Spice rack (deleted at AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spice rack) Belly rub (tagged for notability and source reliability issues) Store credit Esports betting (tagged for source reliability issues) Jawbone club Reciprocity bias (merged to Reciprocity (social psychology) in lieu of deletion) Trasucha (sentence-long page created with two citation needed tags) Cardinal slice Autogynephilic persuasive pornography (later moved to sissy hypno; improved significantly from the original by other editors) Centre of Expertise on Euthanasia Tarisland Snoonet (redirected at AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snoonet) Linkomanija Lakka (operating system) Bizatch Pain reprocessing therapy Bahnhofsmission (moved to Draft:Bahnhofsmission due to sourcing problems) Breast implant illness IRC Cloud (tagged for notability issues) Intentionality bias Warrior of Mogente (tagged for heavy reliance on one source) Pellyite (created with citation needed tag) X-Force Command: Cyber Tactical Operations Center Modelling light (moved to Draft:Modelling light due to sourcing problems) Stumm AG (tagged as requiring proofreading, orphan)

The surviving articles are generally very short, and even the ones that have not yet been tagged for issues tend to suffer from notability and sourcing problems. The articles regularly cite low-quality sources, including blogs by authors with unclear expertise (for example [61]), WP:MEDIUM, etc. Pek also continues to edit articles on medical topics (Pain reprocessing therapy, Breast implant illness), and the issues around WP:MEDRS discussed in the last ANI conversation have not been resolved.

I think it's time to consider an indefinite article creation ban, given the amount of work Pek is creating for other editors who must come in and clean up behind them. (I will do that cleanup — again — but wanted to leave the articles largely intact for this discussion.) GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: indef article creation ban. I'll quote myself from last year: "Beyond Jayron32's sound advice -- and the advice you've had from a number of other editors -- if, as you say, you don't have the expertise to gauge the difference between a good source and a bad one, and you don't have the expertise to expand articles with meaningful content, then the answer appears that you are not yet ready to edit Wikipedia at all." I see nothing here which would lead me to revise that view. Wikipedia is not here to provide amusement to otherwise bored would-be editors. Ravenswing 21:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Fully concur with all of you. The overwhelming backlog of existing articles on important subjects that desperately need citations to reliable sources is already too severe. For example, no one had added a decent source to support a general summary of what is elite theory since that article's creation in 2006. And that's a fundamental concept pounded into undergraduates in freshman political science courses in college. The only source added in 2015 to support the lead paragraphs was an obvious WP:SPS, a blog by an undergraduate. I just fixed that. The last thing we need is an editor apparently going out of their way to make the backlog even worse, even after they were told to cut it out. --Coolcaesar (talk) 21:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• I support an indefinite article creation ban. In response to being urged at their page to stop creating poorly-sourced stubs, Pek says things like "I'm creating stubs in the hope, that someone who actually knows about the subject would add more content to the article in future" and "I just don't get it. Why is Wikipedia so strict about sources?" and "Also, isn't it better to have some sources, even if they aren't perfect, than having no sources at all?" No, it's actually better not to have an article on a subject at all, if the alternative is to have one with promotional or otherwise unreliable sources. Pek has been many times urged to edit existing articles instead, but doesn't want to, giving the reason that "when I create new article, it gets more attraction that way". I'm sorry to distress Pek ("This is the only hobby I have"🙁) but it's seriously time to stop indulging that hobby since it eats up the time, energy and patience of competent editors (which is Wikipedia's greatest resource). Bishonen | tålk 23:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC).

  I note that we now have the ability to block a user specifically from "Creating new pages and uploading new files" and I think at a minimum that is appropriate here. They got a second chance and blew it. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 01:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, let's do that. Block indefinitely, as we don't want them to simply wait out yet another sanction and then again go back to their old ways. Once they have a decent record of contributing to development of articles started by others, they can appeal the partial block. Bishonen | tålk 10:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

• Support. WP:RS is our policy. Creating a new article is a wonderful thing, but one shouldn't bring one into the world without the prerequisite care and planning to give that article a sustainable and vibrant life. To do otherwise is cruelty. BBQboffin^{grill me} 06:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  WP:RS is not, actually, a policy. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 12:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, but WP:V is, and that requires RS. Black Kite (talk) 14:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support they clearly don't understand how to create a reliably sourced article. Let's see if they can edit productively in other areas of the project before any consideration of being allowed to create articles again. Isaidnoway (talk) 09:39, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Please don't permanently ban me. I know I'm not the greatest article creator out there, but I'm trying my best every time I look for sources. Sometimes it's really hard to find good sources. Also, my articles tend to be very short, because I don't know about subject matter myself, so it's hard to write long article without understanding what the heck am I writing about. Could you maybe ban me for 3 months instead of indefinitely banning me? --Pek (talk) 09:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Please don't ban me, I'm begging on my knees. Give me a 3rd chance. I promise I will fix my behavior. I swear on my grandmothers grave. Just please, give me one more chance. --Pek (talk) 10:38, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  To be clear, the proposal above is not to "permanently ban" you from anything, it's to indefinitely prevent you from specifically creating new articles. Not only will you still be able to edit Wikipedia, but "indefinite" merely means that the block has an undetermined expiration time - depending on one's actions and the block's intent, its practical duration may (or may not) be quite short. This is covered in both INDEF and BLOCKFAQ, which I would suggest reading as they may allay your concerns:

  Indefinite does not mean "infinite" or "permanent"; it just means that no automatic expiration time (or duration) for the block has been set. An indefinitely blocked user may later be unblocked in appropriate circumstances.

  An indefinite block does not mean that you are "blocked forever". It simply means the blocking administrator did not set a time limit or expiration for the block. In this case, the blocked user will usually be required to appeal their block and discuss the matter with an administrator before an unblock will be considered. An indefinite block could be applied because the user needs to confirm that things are okay and that nothing's wrong, or it could be due to a problem that needs attention, or a problem that is deemed to need the user to acknowledge that they understand that a behavior was inappropriate first before they will be unblocked.

  Emphasis is mine.

  So, you'd be able to appeal this block if you manage to show that you understand the problem, and will take steps not to do it in the future. Before you attempt anything like an appeal, however, I would strongly suggest reviewing the policies and guidelines you're accused of breaching, and taking into account what others are saying here: Bishonen's comment above in particular, to me, indicates clearly what you are going to be expected to do assuming you're blocked. I would pay specific attention to it, and try to follow the guidance within.

  And, once you are ready for a formal unblock appeal, do read the APPEAL page and the guide to appealing blocks. LaughingManiac (talk) 14:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  What about draft articles? Will I be allowed to make those? --Pek (talk) 16:04, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Bear in mind that I am not familiar enough with the intricacies of this particular case, nor with the exact Wikipedia policy on the creation of articles, to give you a fully accurate answer. Thus, I would advise you directly ask editors more experienced with these processes, such as the one I mentioned above.

  In my own eyes: DRAFT mentions both that this is where new articles can be created and that they "allow editors to develop new articles and to receive feedback before being moved to Wikipedia's article namespace". Thus, if I had to guess, since article drafts are part of the article creation process, with the eventual goal being to move them to mainspace, and since the proposal doesn't mention a focus on a specific part of article creation, I believe it would be prudent to assume that this is a broadly construed block and not attempt to create drafts. LaughingManiac (talk) 16:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  One other reason I believe you shouldn't try to create drafts is that I'd interpret that as running afoul of the actual "spirit" of the block which, in my view, was laid out above, regardless of its "letter". See, again, what Bishonen states (emphasis mine once again): "Once they have a decent record of contributing to development of articles started by others, they can appeal the partial block." You are asking to, yourself, keep creating drafts, which is the development of new articles, as opposed to helping with what others have already created. This is contrary to what I view as the stated intent for this block.

  In other words, it would be, at best, what's commonly described as wikilawyering, which is defined in part as "Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles". LaughingManiac (talk) 17:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you can't find good sources for an article, then you shouldn't be creating the article. If you don't know enough about the subject matter to write a credible article, then you shouldn't be creating the article. To quote myself, "Wikipedia is not some geeky MMORPG where we're competing for Game High Score." These are not -- or should not be, anyway -- difficult concepts to grasp. We've got our own articles to write and curate, and we don't have time to babysit editors who repeatedly refuse to accept direction and advice. Ravenswing 17:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  I would strongly oppose any time-limited ban, given Pek's previous history of simply waiting out the duration of the ban and then returning to creating articles with no change in behavior. As for creating draft articles or using AfC, I would only support this with a limit on the number of drafts/AfC submissions. Pek has left a long list of abandoned drafts behind them, and seems to rarely return to improve an article after issues with it have been identified. This could potentially be addressed by limiting them to one draft/AfC submission at a time, and requiring them to either get the article approved for mainspace or G7 it before beginning a new one.

  This is probably more trouble than it's worth to enforce, though, and so I would more strongly support an outright article creation ban. Pek can just as easily demonstrate their ability to improve their writing and sourcing on existing articles, and I suspect this would be a lesser burden on other editors. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 18:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support indefinite ban on new article creation. Pek's comment above proves that the editor lacks the competence to evaluate which topics are notable. Sometimes it's really hard to find good sources is another way of saying an acceptable Wikipedia article about the topic should not be written at this time. Cullen328 (talk) 09:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Basically WP:CIR. Pek - don't create articles about topics that you don't actually know anything about: do the reading first. FOARP (talk) 11:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support an indefinite ban on creating new articles in the mainspace. I would support a carve out that allows them to create articles through WP:AFC. TarnishedPath^talk 11:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support article creation ban. Either this is a WP:CIR issue or an WP:IDHT one, either way a block is necessary. Lavalizard101 (talk) 11:48, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support article creation in both< mainspace and draftspace. The good news for you is that the vast majority of the useful work you can do here is not impeded. Improving articles is the mainstay of Wikipedia. Creating new ones is a small niche. Please think about where you can do the most good improving things: perhaps you have hobbies or work experience that will help you evaluate and improve specific topic areas. — rsjaffe 🗣️

  Perhaps the AfC process should be open to you. After learning of the long experience with a prior account, that's a big nope.— rsjaffe 🗣️ 17:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support indef topic ban, widely construed, from creating any new articles or redirects. Next step will be an indef block. GiantSnowman 17:06, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Allow user to use AfC process: this would be a good way for this user to develop their skills in sourcing, notability, etc. under supervision. CapitalSasha ~ talk 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  that might be OK, but only if it's limited to e.g. one submission in 24 hours. GiantSnowman 17:39, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support if they can submit drafts to AfC per above. C F A 💬 20:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

 Administrator note After doing some poking around it has come to my attention that this is their second account, the first one being User:Pek~enwiki, and it has far more edits than the current account and a history going back fourteen years. Those who are suggesting a carveout to let them keep creating articles via AFC may want to consider if a user with fourteen years experience on the project who still can't grind out acceptable stubs articles and has already been topic banned for it once really needs a workaround built into their second topic ban. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:34, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Considering the number of CSDs, prods, draftifies, AfDs, and redirects for discussion in that other account's talk page history (many with now-redlinks), this appears to be a long-term problem that might not be solvable. Support indef topic ban on creating new articles or redirects, without an AfC carve-out. Schazjmd (talk) 23:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: indefinite topic ban from creating articles and creating drafts. During the last 6 month voluntary restriction, Pek did almost no editing, then ignored all the helpful feedback given by myself and other users once it was over. Clearly they don't have the competence to create articles and I'm also concerned about their poor communication (including not answering some concerns describing a BLAR of their article as vandalism). They ought to get real experience in editing before trying their hand at article creation again. MarchOfTheGreyhounds 12:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP Hopper adding the same number all over.

Normally would give a warning or even 2 then report the IP for vandalism... but we have an IP Hopper going around changing racial figures to the same number everywhere.. I think we may need a range block or something as their using different IPS ....example one - example 2 - example 3. I'm unsure how many articles are affected as I'm just noticing the ones on my watch list.Moxy🍁 02:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

That is two IPs. The /64 ranges are Special:Contributions/2a01:cb00:607:a00::/64 and Special:Contributions/2a02:8440:2502:5da1::/64. Johnuniq (talk) 03:32, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I've hardblocked those two /64s for two weeks. Bishonen | tålk 10:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

I've now been alerted to similar disruption on my page for User:2a02:8440:250c:aaa4:5c9d:4864:f7c3:27f5 plus an account, Ydududu, so I've blocked those also. Not sure I'm doing any good with this: are you able to block a larger range, Johnuniq? Bishonen | tålk 13:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC). PS: No, this is not about "disruption on my page"! Bishonen | tålk 15:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

@Bishonen: The range Special:Contributions/2a02:8440:2500::/44 includes 2a02:8440:2502:5da1::/64 and 2a02:8440:250c:aaa4:5c9d:4864:f7c3:27f5 but it has no other recent bad edits. There are some apparently constructive edits at 2024 World Wrestling Championships. Perhaps someone here could report if the /44 range is used for more of these changes. Johnuniq (talk) 03:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

User: P J Chatterjee – Disruptive Editing

• P J Chatterjee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has repeatedly added misleading, unsourced, and biased information across multiple articles, despite receiving multiple warnings.
• User Contributions
• Talk Page
• Block Log
• Recent Edit

• Summary: Consistent pattern of adding unsourced and negative content. Ignores guidelines and feedback from editors.
• Request: Review and consider appropriate action to prevent further disruption.

Cerium4B (talk) 07:32, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• OK, that's a spectacular number of reverted recent contributions for an editor with over 2,000 edits. And this, their last edit, is really not good. They hardly ever communicate either; they've never usefully used a Talk page and haven't used User_Talk for over a year. I have blocked them from Article Space to get their attention, hopefully they will respond. Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

2024 Bangladesh anti-Hindu violence

The article is having the same line added twice, personal opinions are being included, and information is being distorted. Even though there are discussions on the talk page, they are being ignored, and edits are still being made. See. Please review the article. C⚛smLearner ^💬🔬 14:46, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Yes, there are problems here, including but not limited to poor sourcing and opinion. Of course, one of the main issues is that Indian and Bangladeshi media often report on the issue in different ways, so it is possible to have even reliable sources disagreeing with each other about the facts. I have fully-protected the article for two weeks, editors should reach consensus on the talk page about how to continue here. Black Kite (talk) 15:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Black Kite A lot of discussion has taken place on the article's talk page. While the discussion is ongoing, I am requesting you to make a normal edit to keep the article in a reasonably accurate and stable condition. C⚛smLearner ^💬🔬 15:28, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  See Talk:2024 Bangladesh anti-Hindu violence#Article protected. What Black Kite said there is standard practice during full protection. Edits requests can be made but they need clear consensus or they should be to fix obvious errors or problems. Nil Einne (talk) 18:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Also I can't say I'd agree about "A lot of discussion has taken place on the article's talk page". AFAICT, there have only been 3 comment on the talk page by 2 editors in November before protection despite the recent flareup. Most editors involved in the recent dispute don't seem to have made it to the talk page despite the edit warring and disputes. Editors who never made it to the talk page recently despite the flareup include you CosmLearner BTW. Even the discussion back in October seems to have petered out without anything close to consensus despite a suggestion to use some form of dispute resolution . Nil Einne (talk) 18:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Indeed. During the recent edit war between CosmLearner and Za-ari-masen, neither of them posted to the talk page at all. I might have made a different decision if I saw any sign of discussion; whilst I decided to protect the article, I could have decided to pblock both of them from the article instead. Black Kite (talk) 20:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Persistent unsourced birth date changes by 2001:448A:50E0:0:0:0:0:0/48

2001:448A:50E0:0:0:0:0:0/48 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - /48 has been making long-term unsourced/unexplained birth date changes, and hasn't responded to warnings. /48 has been blocked 3 times previously, most recently in July 2024 for 3 months for "sustained date vandalism". Recent examples of unsourced birth date changes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Waxworker (talk) 16:05, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I've re-blockd the range for a year. It looks like it's been the same editor on there for years.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 17:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Techiya1925

This most likely belongs to AE, but I'm not ECR so I'm not sure if I can report there. Apparently Techiya1925 committed several 1RR violations in Talk:November 2024 Amsterdam attacks (which is not even why I'm reporting this here), once confronted with that he began casting aspersions and even doubled down after being told to AGF by an admin.

In his talk page, I got the impression that he's accusing everyone who goes against his POV of being either radical Islamic propagandists or “they/them” computer geeks who hate Jews. Previously today he got warned for engaging in an edit war. I don't think that such WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour is useful for the encyclopedia.— 🧀Cheesedealer ^!!!⚟ 17:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Please make sure that when you are doing your investigation, you look at everything. From the beginning, to the end. In various discussions on the talk page of the article. Techiya1925 (talk) 17:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've blocked the editor for 24 hours due to their continued personal attacks of fellow users. Considering this has been happening on a CTOP, and their clear battleground behavior, I'd support an indef tban from the topic. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 19:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• I think that was very lenient. I might well have blocked for a much longer time for this. Black Kite (talk) 20:16, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, they should be indefinitely blocked until they can prove otherwise for nonsense like that. C F A 💬 20:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Huh, I completely glossed over that part of the comment. That's my bad. I've upgraded the block to indef as an individual admin action, although there is some consensus here for such. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 21:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Is anyone going to point out the random, completely unprompted, transphobia? Iostn (talk) 21:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Iostn, do you have any diffs of this behavior? Because I've looked over their talk page comments for the past two days and aside from this diff shared by Black Kite, I can see them getting upset over a contentious subject but that's the only attack I can see. I know there is a no tolerance rule for attacks based on race, gender, gender identity, ethnicity and religion but this does seem like an isolated incident. They should have stepped away from the article and its talk page. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Liz, I could be wrong but I interpreted "they/them" computer geeks who hate Jews as a thinly veiled and staggeringly unfriendly allusion to transgender editors. But perhaps they are only mocking antisemitic editors who prefer the singular they. Anything is possible in The New World. Cullen328 (talk) 07:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz basically what Cullen said, although the main reason I mentioned it was because although it was quoted the whole unprovoked nature of it is probably something worth at least noting Iostn (talk) 15:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Iostn and Cullen, thanks for pointing that out. Stating pronoun preference is so common in my little part of the world that I can sometimes be oblivious when it is used as an insult. I don't know if that qualifies a person as transphobic but it was definitely not appropriate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a collective insult, like he-she before it. Brazenly weaponized this year, no less. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 01:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort to look at the nuances here, but I would have to respectfully disagree with the idea that this was a light or ambiguous violation. Plenty of users have felt angry and frustrated at times on WP, but it had never descended to a low of making explicitly discriminatory, both Islamophobic and transphobic, comments towards other editors. Connecting transgender people as a whole with hating Jews, is transphobic. Connecting anyone they disagree with on Israel as a "radical Islamic propagandist", a four-fold assumption of them being: 1- Muslim in religion 2- Islamist in thinking 3- radicalized and 4- propagadanist. I have been editing on WP for a decade and I have never encountered this level of unfiltered hate speech. This should be taken extremely seriously. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed topic ban from the Israel-Palestine conflict and antisemitism

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Given the unacceptable comments, I think this is the bare minimum, and have no issue with an indefinite block . Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

user blanking talk page after sockpuppetry warning

User User:Nowiki tags and BLP Violations clearing talk page after being blocked for sockpuppetry https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nowiki_tags_and_BLP_Violations&diff=next&oldid=1256590651 owuh (talk | she/her) 18:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The account is now globally locked. -- Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Sockpuppet IP user

• Suspected IPs

1. 76.68.24.171 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
2. 2607:FEA8:571E:CE00:D81A:9C9D:4833:65A4 (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

• Evidence:

1. Both IPs reverted my edits in identical ways shortly after each other. Check - ( 1 & 2 )
2. Same articles edited by both IPs from same location. Check - 1 & 2

Cerium4B • Talk? 20:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Here is another ip address of the same user 2607:FEA8:571E:CE00:D8C:6DE5:FF66:5C6C (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) - Cerium4B • Talk? • 04:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Black Kite

Please take a look at this topic - Cerium4B • Talk? • 13:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Dirsuptive behaviour (vol 2)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I already filed a report a few days ago (report), although there was no sufficient action taken there. User:Oddsourceuser was created 4 days ago (Nov 6) and they have been consistently edit-warring since then. They already have 98 edits on the main account (as of Nov 10), with many POV and original research disruptions. They were using the IP address: 141.98.142.45 (40+ edits) in order to restore their reverted edits and, when the IP got blocked, presented that as "accidentally making edits in incognito mode" (diff). By Nov 8, they had received in total 7 notices and warnings (talk), including 2 for edit-warring, and there has been a recently filed SPI case too. The edit-war was centered in articles, such as Sotiris Ninis, Parga, Agia, Preveza, Palase, Dhermi, Himare (town) etc. violating the WP:3RR on multiple occasions until today. They also altered a quotation taken from a source (diff, diff), and it appears that they already begun using a new IP address: 141.98.142.33. The last time, the admin was more reserved and did not take any action, blocking only the IP, but so far it doesn't seem like this behaviour is going to stop any time soon. Piccco (talk) 21:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The "new ip adress"was just given to me automatically,and the reverts i did were on my laptop and i had not signed in,its not like it would have been hard to do them on my own account but since im on mobile and its harder to.Anyways i have done the edits that i wanted to do already and the edits that i did that were wrong or badly sourced or phrased were reverted,im currently focusing on 3 drafts i created and dont plan to make any edits on anything but ny drafts anytime soon Oddsourceuser (talk) 21:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The IPs are not "just given", one choses to edit logged-out, but in any case, I'm just reporting all the violations that have been happening until today. Piccco (talk) 22:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

IP addresses are, in most cases, just given, and the user has no control over them. No comment about the overall substance of the complaint. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:17, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Oddsourceuser, do you really think diffs of Wikipedia edits are valid references for an article (on a living person)? (And the BBC ref is still good as a report of his being born to Greek parents, 10 years old though it may be.) Yngvadottir (talk) 08:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Username checks out, I suppose. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 19:21, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Oddsourceuser is blocked as a sockpuppet (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/GJOLEKA) Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Blue Rider - chronic assumption of bad faith

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

hello all. i have come here because i am not sure what else to do at this point. @The Blue Rider has been consistently assuming bad faith of other editors, and has been blocked a few times already for edit-warring, WP:LOUTSOCKing, and uncollaborative behavior.
i will not dwell too much on older behavior, but for some relevant context, see:

• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/The Blue Rider/Archive (15 Oct)
• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive488#User:The Blue Rider reported by User:RachelTensions (Result: Blocked indefinitely) (22 Oct)
• they were indeffed by @ToBeFree after the above. see their (long) unblock discussion: Special:PermanentLink/1253579276#October 2024 2 (23-26 Oct)

since they've been unblocked, TBR has continued with similar behavior.

• their behavior on @Voorts' RfA: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Voorts#Oppose & Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Voorts#Tangential discussion moved (2-3 Nov). they ended up striking their initial oppose vote, but none of the aspersions which followed, e.g. "HMIJ is very intentionally trying to discredit my opposing vote [...] blatant defamation.", "you are trying to discredit me", "it is harassment" (referring to being warned for edit-warring with a bureaucrat)
• removing talk page warnings and CTOP notices with aggressive edit summaries: "removing completely bad faith warning", "??? what are you on about", "removed bad faith template", "fuck off, this is harrassement", "This has gotten to the ridiculous point that she is a WP:SPA whose objective is to get me blocked", "bad faith template, I did not edit such contetious topic"

in response to that last one, i left a message on their talk page about assuming bad faith of other editors & CTOP templates. i was promptly reverted with the edit summary "Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Arab–Israeli conflict also says that you should only use the template when someone has never been warned before about contentious topics. I don't appreciate your WP:WITCHHUNT". moments later, they pinged me in the main public channel of the Wikimedia Discord with the message "@sawyer drop the WP:WITCHHUNT". i won't say much else about the exchange in the discord because i know that's kind of a gray area, but that's the most relevant bit. i have to say, i don't appreciate being accused of a witch hunt - i've only ever interacted with them on-wiki one time, at voorts' RfA in a neutral capacity.
i am not sure what would solve this behavior short of an indefinite block, but of course i am open to other milder suggestions. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 22:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

notification ... sawyer * he/they * talk 22:28, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Appearances of The Blue Rider's talk page in my watchlist after the unblock have repeatedly left me thinking my initial assessment may have been correct, and unblocking was more likely a mistake than a good decision. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• I have reinstated the block, indefinitely. While I commend @ToBeFree:'s attempts to help them become a productive editor, AGF is not a suicide pact and The Blue Rider shows no indication they're going to edit collaboratively. Star Mississippi 22:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  i wasn't expecting such a swift response here. i appreciate it. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 23:04, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  In my eyes, the case you made and the continued conduct was clear. If anyone feels I acted too harshly and feels the block should be reversed, any admin is welcome to enact that. Star Mississippi 23:17, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Not at all, Star Mississippi, it was the inevitable end of a predictable road for that editor. Their behaviour in Voorts's RfA was abominable, and demonstrated an absolute lack of clue when taken in conjunction with their previous history. Recidivism to the point of trolling is merely a time sink; combined with a complete inability to listen to advice makes this probably a battle not worth time and energy in fighting. SerialNumber54129 23:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Agree on inevitable when their reaction to me making two page moves they disliked was to call me an "overly confrontational" "asshole". Moreover, they've self-professed persecutory delusion, so this was unlikely to be easily changed behavior. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 02:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Hyphenation Expert: This is a gross misreading of an obvious joke on their user page; you should withdraw it. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  (The substance of the joke is: that is a list of articles they have created, brought to GA status, etc. In particular they were the nominator of Persecutory delusion to GA.) 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Not looking like it. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 20:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good block. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:25, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Agreed, if it is not obvious enough. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 05:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you very much! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Not an admin, just an editor wanting to comment on the record. This block makes me a bit sad, the user in question has been very helpful and productive from what I've seen. I understand that I don't have the full picture, but hope that a path forward could be clearly defined to allow them back. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 18:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

it makes me sad as well. however, a path forward to allow them back was clearly defined when they were unblocked by ToBeFree, and they continued with the exact same uncivil behavior. as Star Mississippi says, Wikipedia:AGF is not a suicide pact ... sawyer * he/they * talk 18:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Persistent addition of unsourced content by 87.192.92.202

87.192.92.202 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Keeps adding unsourced content to The Big Knights, continued after final warning and hasn't responded to warnings. Also appears to be block evasion of 89.125.129.68 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - see previous ANI report for that IP. Examples of addition of unsourced content: 1, 2, 3 (While Pixar is mentioned in the existing ref, Pixar is not discussed in the cited source as being involved in the contract between Dreamworks and Aardman), 4. Waxworker (talk) 04:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

An observation about that article: while I in no way condone the IP user's unsourced additions, much of the content there, pre-dating the IP's edits, is also unsourced, and it reads more like a Fandom page instead of an encyclopedia article. Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 10:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

SumoAvocado is seeking to intimidate a long term admin

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Involved:

• SumoAvocado (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Liz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I hesitate to act without Liz's permission. However, I have decided that SumoAvocado's conduct at User talk:Liz#Your light touch is needed warrants examination by the participants here.

I acknowledge that, as an experienced admin, respected by the community, that Liz can handle anything thrown at them. It is the behaviour by SumoAvocado which I find at best not to be collegial. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:59, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

"Intimidate" is the correct term and SumoAvocado's approach is way out of line. Their comments taken as a whole amount to a legal threat, and so I have blocked that person in any guise indefinitely. Cullen328 (talk) 09:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I and the project (do I dare speak for the project?) thank you, Cullen328, for swift and immediate action. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your personal thanks, Timtrent. If the project could speak, the project would speak for itself. Not yet, eager AI bots. Cullen328 (talk) 09:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

~giggles helplessly~ 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2600:1700:36D0:9B0:652A:2DCE:ED1:8043 -- Persistent NPA vios

Talk:Donald Trump --- Seven NPA vios in 90 minutes, and no sign of stopping. Needs a block. ―Mandruss ☎ 08:59, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

And another[62] — Czello ^(music) 09:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

IP blocked 72 hours for personal attacks and harassment. Cullen328 (talk) 09:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Much appreciated. It was beginning to affect my self-esteem (not). ―Mandruss ☎ 09:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Crammer29293

Crammer29293 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is abusing talk page after block. --Leonidlednev (T, C, L) 19:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. TPA revoked. Bishonen | tålk 19:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC).

Edit warring now followed by abusive behaviour

Golden409bus (talk · contribs) has been edit warring at Seven Sisters station. I was considering a 3RR report until I saw this morning's abusive post (diff) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways. I have a lot of respect for my fellow Wikiproject editor Redrose64 (talk · contribs) and I don't believe that the comments made about Redrose64 are in any way justifiable. When combined with the edit-warring behaviour I believe it is justifiable to bring Golden409bus' behaviour here. --10mmsocket (talk) 07:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

10mmsocket, your statement says "comments", was there more than this one diff? Have you tried talking to this editor first before coming to ANI? Give them an edit warring notice? These are usually the first steps we advise editors to take. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Reverted and warned user. — Voice of Clam (talk) 08:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, that's another approach. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Why is such a warning needed? It was warranted (and given) by their behaviour in the article (and with 3RR additions, certainly so) but their behaviour on the project page has now gone beyond that. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Liz - I would have gone to 3RR, but I thought that the disrespectful comment indicated someone who was unlikely to play nicely so and so brought it here instead. Every day is a school day though, so will know for the future. Thanks. 10mmsocket (talk) 11:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

MAB Sock

Please block Right Hand Guy. Thanks Nobody (talk) 07:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

That's user:MidAtlanticBaby .Typical recent behaviour is to take a one-month-old sleeper account, game extended confirmed by making 500 trivial and meaningless edits, and then attack User:Magnolia677. See User talk:Magnolia677#IP. It seems someone has added a filter which is working (check the 140 or so disallowed edits in the edit filter log), so now they're spamming Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives/Reports. Meters (talk) 08:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The brazenness is astounding too. Imagine reporting, with a straight face that something was a false positive because they were "trying to get revenge on a user." CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 08:28, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Note that Right Hand Guy has made several attempts to delete this discussion, and appears to have reverted Nythar's reports elsewhere too. See his contributions. — Czello ^(music) 08:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked Right Hand Guy for multiple reasons that amount to "not here to build an encyclopedia". Cullen328 (talk) 08:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

User is now continuing disruption logged out as 184.65.140.154 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) — Czello ^(music) 08:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

yup, likes to burn up open proxies. Meters (talk) 08:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Right Hand Guy blocked by Cullen328, I've blocked the IP account. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Now on 27.145.15.143 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). — Czello ^(music) 08:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

That one was blocked too. MAB has some balls removing this, but I'll dare say it's best we don't stuff beans up our noses? LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 08:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Blocked. – robertsky (talk) 08:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• I wonder how many months/years it's going to take us to develop another proxy-blocking bot after ST47ProxyBot's retirement. These open proxy vandals are becoming more and more common. Is anyone currently working in that area by any chance? Nythar (💬-🍀) 08:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Well, we know who this is and what they want to do. I think the editor involved the report at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Permission gaming after warnings was MidAtlanticBaby, too. They are gaming to become extended confirmed to harass a specific editor on the project. If you see this happen, go directly to an active admin. We are familiar with his MO at this point. I've semi-protected this noticeboard for a few days so you don't have to play revert wars with the latest IP removing this report. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

They are continuing to try to remove this report with registered accounts. Admins patrolling here, please keep an eye open for their vandalism here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:07, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Now Project MAKEOVER (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log).

Would making this board EC-protected be excessive / too disruptive? — Czello ^(music) 09:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I might get flack for doing just that but it's only for a few hours. Just long enough for them to get discouraged and move on (hopefully). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:RBI is probably the best approach if they return. — Voice of Clam (talk) 09:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

IP range and MOS:ETHNICITY violations

Hi - looking for a second opinion on whether to take action about something. An anonymous user operating on 2003:DC:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 has been dipping into multiple articles (some of them BLPs) to add the word 'jewish' for the last couple of weeks. Examples: John Malkovich, David Ayer, Jacques Lebaudy, I counted about a dozen similar instances, going back to 28 October on this range. They get tagged, but the aren't automatically reverted by ClueBot - they have all been manually reverted so far. It's a different article every time, no point in applying protection, and they are jumping about within this range, so there's no realistic way of communicating with them, and blocking a range this wide would involve a significant amount of collateral. Wondering whether others think that the disruption is significant enough to warrant an anon-block on the range. Pinging Acroterion in particular as another admin I saw reverting these edits. Girth Summit _(blether) 11:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I could've sworn this was some sort of LTA. More than one person would use "Jewish" in the same way one would use "American" or any other nationality? LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 12:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was an LTA, but I don't know which one. Girth Summit _(blether) 12:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

There has been an uptick in Jew-tagging in the past year. Most of it is meant maliciously, others are simply misunderstandings of how WP approaches religion and ethnicity; it's hard to tell sometimes. I would not be surprised if there are LTAs involved in some of these with recognizable geolocations, but I don't recognize this one. The ones I've been familiar with have come from Sweden or northern Italy, but I'm sure there are wannabe LTAs lurking. I think the best route is to keep doing what we're doing, and keep an eye on edit filter 982, which does a good job of flagging potential problems.,and revert when appropriate. Acroterion (talk) 12:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)